Jehonadab

I apologize for the long delays if anyone was expecting me to continue this with further explanation. My computer keeps getting attacked and I have been forced to clean and reprogram my machine every other day. I have just spent the last nearly twenty-four hours getting it back up and running. They got into my hard-drive and I had to wipe it out and reprogram the MBR.

Oh well. At least I have the tools and the expertise with which to do that, but it is forcing me to run without any remote access to my computer. The anti-virus real-time programs seem to be useless against them when someone in the Trust Network is the culprit.

If we compare Luke's version of what Matthew stated there at Matthew 22:30, we get a clearer picture of what I am speaking concerning. I have not reloaded my Bible programs as of yet, so I will be back to continue later.

Love you all.

The real import to Jesus words a Matthew 22:30 are that the command to fill this earth and subdue it was given to the first Adam.

Think about that.

Marriage of humankind was an institution of God for man to use to fulfill the obligation of Genesis 1:28 which God laid upon that first Adam and his helpmeet which God gave to him to assist in this.

But we do know that God is not about over-populating man's home.

Therefore, we must realize that commandment began and ends with Adam's flesh.

From there it is about regeneration, (being born again).

I still say the article cited speaks far above the average person's ability to understand, in that most would become quickly frustrated at having to work so hard to grasp what it's writer was getting at.

The average person does not understand either Hebrew or Greek, or the relevant lexicography, so the average person's opinion on the meaning of this word is irrelevant. They need to take the time to listen to the conclusions of people who actually know what they are talking about. I don't see what is so hard to grasp about 'Jews in Jesus' time did not use the word 'abba' to mean 'daddy''. That's not difficult to grasp.

And i do not care how right one is,

Well you should. Facts are important. If we are going to disregard facts, we might as well ignore the entire Bible.

The scriptures are simple to understand when they are pieced together in proper compliment.

That requires knowledge of the relevant linguistic and socio-historical context. Without that, the Scriptures are not simple to understand; they are easy to distort.

We need not parade ourselves to have all this intellect...

No one is doing this.

I agree with most of what you here have said. I also know that though I have taken time to study the Hebrew and the Greek and to consult with the Scholars concerning such things, if I am to help the babes to Christ I must find simpler ways to speak for their sake.

And I see no good reason to ever speak as pious Scholars would consider it proper for a scholar to speak. I would rather you all think me ignorant than to speak above the majority who are yet babes.

I Struggled with how to name this Topic so forgive me if it is not very precise.

What I am trying to ask is what are peoples opinions here about the development of Apostasy in the early Church?

Obviously by the time we get to the Council of Nicaea there were some fairly well developed Apostasies knocking about.

We know from the letters to the 7 Ecclesia's that things had reached a pretty dia state by AD96 or there abouts.

So are there any thoughts, conclusions, regarding the development of the Apostasy in-between?

When it comes to heresies, (which is what constitutes apostatizing away from truth), it is incumbent upon each of us to understand that the one who has apostatized is not so very different from our own selves,, but for the fact that he or she seeks to live in God's truth yet doing so by means of the fleshly carnal mind-set rather than having put on the mind (literally the mental attitudes and ways of reasoning) of Christ.

If we would bear that in mind then we could find compassion even for those so seriously blind, at least to the extent that we would not see ourselves as so far superior to them that we would let ourselves hate them personally, rather than hating that common bond of the corrupted flesh with it's self imprisoned mind-set, as we ought to do.

The entire theme of the scriptures from beginning to end is the battle between that flesh which lifts itself in pride and the humble contrite spirit which would keep that flesh subdued so as to actually be capable of listening to God and His written word, yes, even to what nature itself speaks concerning God.

Jude 1:23  "And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."

2 Peter 2:18  "For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error."

1 John 2:16  "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."

I found this article which well speaks concerning this root: http://www.globalori...omparing-v1.pdf

I once a gain see something so simple being made complicated by our fallen human desire to show ourselves approved through reasoning.

There is a subtle difference between humble reasoning and reasoning based upon a format that we are qualified to know. When we trust the interpretation our reasoning so that our reasoning becomes the basis to criticize or judge each step we take as to whether it is good or bad, all we do is put tinted glasses upon ourselves which then color and change colors with each step we take.

Humble reasoning learns to gather all of the pieces necessary to understand without judging each piece prematurely.

Paul's mind-set is that Christ is the last Adam: 1 Corinthians 15:45  "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."

Paul knew that: Acts 17:26  "And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation.." Indeed, that is the blood of the one man, Adam.

Paul had faithfully followed the scripture rather than losing sight of what was first said: Genesis 3:14-15  "And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

Now there is the interesting paradox. At Genesis 3:15 it becomes clear that the serpent's seed is many, even as the serpent is one but his seed many. But it was one singular seed that the serpent fell all mankind through: Romans 5:12  "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.."

Romans 5:15  "But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many."

1 Corinthians 15:21-22  "For since by [one] man came death, by [one] man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

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I have given but a small example there above as to how to connect the scriptures so that the scriptures themselves give us the answers we seek.

But now I wish to address the real reason why so many prefer to judge and thus unwittingly color the picture of each piece before they get to the full picture:

Pride in the flesh.

The flesh desires to be special by fleshly inheritance rather than to accept that spiritual inheritance in no way is dependent upon the flesh. That way the flesh can imagine it is OK due to being treasured as something peculiarly special to God and so the flesh can ignore it's decrepit true situation due to it being responsible for carrying on sin and thus keeping sin alive in this world.

But in the one seed the flesh would not be allowed to due that, even as John points out: 1 John 3:6-10  "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7  Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8  He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9  Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10  In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

The crux of the matter is that if we cannot come to life in that one seed then we have no life. Out side of being born again through the last Adam we remain dead with the first Adam.