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Hebrews 1:10


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#1 Fortigurn

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Posted 13 June 2003 - 06:21 AM

Hebrews 1:10 quotes directly from Psalm 102:

Hebrews 1:
10And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.


Of whom is this speaking? Is it speaking of Christ or God? The trinitarian says it speaks of Christ as God - ignoring completely the context of the Psalm from which it was quoted.

#2 Fortigurn

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Posted 13 June 2003 - 06:22 AM

Firstly, we have a major contradiction in the trinitarian theology. How can a God have a God? A God is by definition the Almighty Being whom you worship.
Trinitarians would have us believe that Christ is the God of the Father - a complete absurdity!

Fortunately, with a wave of his Secret Decoder Ring, the trinitarian can dismiss this absurdity, and say that we just have to believe it anyway, because God can do anything - even be subordinate to His son, and refer to Christ as His God. Well... whatever.

Secondly, the appeal to the quote from Psalm 102 is blatantly out of context. Let's put it in context, shall we?

#3 Fortigurn

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Posted 13 June 2003 - 06:23 AM

Remember, the trinitarian is claiming that this psalm is narrated by God the Father to God the son:

Psalm 102:
1 Hear my prayer, O LORD, and let my cry come unto Thee.

2Hide not Thy face from me in the day when I am in trouble; incline Thine ear unto me: in the day when I call answer me speedily.

3For my days are consumed like smoke, and my bones are burned as an hearth.

4My heart is smitten, and withered like grass; so that I forget to eat my bread.

5By reason of the voice of my groaning my bones cleave to my skin.

6I am like a pelican of the wilderness: I am like an owl of the desert.

7I watch, and am as a sparrow alone upon the house top.

8Mine enemies reproach me all the day; and they that are mad against me are sworn against me.

9For I have eaten ashes like bread, and mingled my drink with weeping,

10Because of Thine indignation and Thy wrath: for Thou hast lifted me up, and cast me down.

11My days are like a shadow that declineth; and I am withered like grass.


That's God speaking to Christ, is it? Read it through to the end - you will find that it is David speaking directly to God.
There is no possible way it could be referring to the Father speaking to the son.

#4 Fortigurn

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Posted 13 June 2003 - 06:24 AM

So having described the son as greater than the angels, on the authority of God Himself, Paul then quotes a psalm which speaks clearly of the authority
of God over all, including the son. The natural progression in Hebrews is utterly unmistakable:

- The son is greater than the fathers and the prophets - because he has been exalted above them

- The son is greater than the angels - because he has obtained a better name and authority than they, and he is the sonof God

- The son is worthy of worship even by the angels, who are powerful as it is - because he has been annointed above all, and given a Kingdom

- God is above all] - because He laid the foundations of the heaven and the earth, and all power is His

- God is above all - because He alone has the authority to place Christ above the angels

- Christ is above the angels - because he has been given authority over them

- Therefore we ought to give heed to the words of Christ, since we are lower than even the angels, who are lower than Christ (who is lower than God)

#5 Fortigurn

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Posted 13 June 2003 - 06:24 AM

The progression simply, in ascending and descending order:

__The fathers and prophets

____The angels

______Christ

_________God

______Christ

____The angels

___The descendants of the fathers and prophets)

The structure here is unmistakably a classic ring composition common to both Hebrew and Greek literature.
It ascends in natural order from man to God, and it descends in natural order from God to man again.
In addition, it is perfectly in accordance with the Divine hierarchy elsewhere recorded - God, Christ, angels, man.

#6 Fortigurn

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Posted 13 June 2003 - 06:24 AM

This chapter is redolent with the subordination of the son to the Father:

- Christ was made higher than the angels - he was not higher previously, and he was made higher by God, who is higher than he
(It is made manifest again that Christ was lower than the angels, when Paul tells us in chapter 2 that Christ was 'lower than the angels'.)

- Christ obtained by inheritance a better name than the angels - he did not have it previously, and he inherited it from God, who bequeathed it to him as one greater than he

- Christ was begotten - God was never begotten

- Christ was annointed by God - the one who annoints has the higher authority than the one annointed

- Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father until the Father subdues his enemies - it is the Father who delivers the Kingdom to the son, being greater than he




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