Jump to content


Photo

The Creedal Challenge


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
18 replies to this topic

#1 Fortigurn

Fortigurn

    Moderator

  • Admin
  • 34,729 posts

Posted 13 June 2003 - 02:29 AM

I shall be highlighting those clauses and phrases for which I want direct Scriptural quotes. You will find this difficult, if not completely impossible, because the Athanasian Creed is clearly not founded on Scriptural verse, as the Christadelphian Statement of Faith is.
There are no Sciptural references, nor quotes cited. The language is clearly contrived, and has been contrived outside Scripture.

Nevertheless, this represents your Christology, so I shall do you the justice of assuming you know what it says and why.

I shall be expecting at least one or two quotes under each clause or phrase, supporting such phrases as 'one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity', 'And in this Trinity none is afore, or after another; none is greater, or less than another', and 'One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of the manhood into God'.

You may take as long as you please...

#2 Fortigurn

Fortigurn

    Moderator

  • Admin
  • 34,729 posts

Posted 13 June 2003 - 02:29 AM

Athansian Creed


(1) Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;


I would like quotes for this please.

#3 Fortigurn

Fortigurn

    Moderator

  • Admin
  • 34,729 posts

Posted 13 June 2003 - 02:30 AM

(2) Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.


I would like quotes for this please.

#4 Fortigurn

Fortigurn

    Moderator

  • Admin
  • 34,729 posts

Posted 13 June 2003 - 02:30 AM

(3) And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;


I need quotes declaring the concept, not the phrase, but the concept (which should be even easier), 'one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity'.
I also want you to explain precisely what this means.

#5 Fortigurn

Fortigurn

    Moderator

  • Admin
  • 34,729 posts

Posted 13 June 2003 - 02:30 AM

(5) For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.


I would like quotes for this please.

#6 Fortigurn

Fortigurn

    Moderator

  • Admin
  • 34,729 posts

Posted 13 June 2003 - 02:30 AM

(6) But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal.


I would like quotes for this please.
I also want you to explain precisely what this means.

#7 Fortigurn

Fortigurn

    Moderator

  • Admin
  • 34,729 posts

Posted 13 June 2003 - 02:30 AM

(7) Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.
(8) The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate, and the Holy Spirit uncreate.
(9) The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, the Holy Spirit incomprehensible
.


I would like quotes for these please.
I also want you to explain precisely what this means.

#8 Fortigurn

Fortigurn

    Moderator

  • Admin
  • 34,729 posts

Posted 13 June 2003 - 02:30 AM

(13) So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty;


I would like quotes for this please.

#9 Fortigurn

Fortigurn

    Moderator

  • Admin
  • 34,729 posts

Posted 13 June 2003 - 02:31 AM

(14) And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.


I would like quotes for this please.
I also want you to explain precisely what this means.

#10 Fortigurn

Fortigurn

    Moderator

  • Admin
  • 34,729 posts

Posted 13 June 2003 - 02:31 AM

(15) So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;


I would like quotes for this please.

#11 Fortigurn

Fortigurn

    Moderator

  • Admin
  • 34,729 posts

Posted 13 June 2003 - 02:31 AM

(16) And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.


I would like quotes for this please.
I also want you to explain precisely what this means.

#12 Fortigurn

Fortigurn

    Moderator

  • Admin
  • 34,729 posts

Posted 13 June 2003 - 02:32 AM

(17) So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;


I would like quotes for this please.

#13 Fortigurn

Fortigurn

    Moderator

  • Admin
  • 34,729 posts

Posted 13 June 2003 - 02:32 AM

(20) So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say: There are three Gods or three Lords.


I would like quotes for this please.

#14 Fortigurn

Fortigurn

    Moderator

  • Admin
  • 34,729 posts

Posted 13 June 2003 - 02:32 AM

(23) The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.


I would like quotes for this please.
I also want you to explain precisely what this means.

#15 Fortigurn

Fortigurn

    Moderator

  • Admin
  • 34,729 posts

Posted 13 June 2003 - 02:32 AM

(24) So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.
(25) And in this Trinity none is afore, or after another; none is greater, or less than another.
(26) But the whole three persons are co-eternal, and co-equal
.


I would like quotes for these please.
I also want you to explain precisely what this means.

#16 Fortigurn

Fortigurn

    Moderator

  • Admin
  • 34,729 posts

Posted 13 June 2003 - 02:32 AM

(27) So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
(28) He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
(29) Furthermore is it necessary to everlasting salvation than he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ
.


I would like quotes for these please.

#17 Fortigurn

Fortigurn

    Moderator

  • Admin
  • 34,729 posts

Posted 13 June 2003 - 02:33 AM

(30) For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.
(31) God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of the substance of His mother, born in the world.
(32) Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting
.

I would like quotes for these please.

#18 Fortigurn

Fortigurn

    Moderator

  • Admin
  • 34,729 posts

Posted 13 June 2003 - 02:33 AM

(33) Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.
(34) Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.
(35) One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of the manhood into God.
(36) One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
(37) For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ
;

I would like quotes for these please.
I also want you to explain precisely what this means.

#19 Fortigurn

Fortigurn

    Moderator

  • Admin
  • 34,729 posts

Posted 13 June 2003 - 02:33 AM

(44) This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved.

I would like quotes for this please.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users