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In this sentence there are are two mistakes


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#1 Adanac

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Posted 18 January 2006 - 03:37 PM

In this sentence there are are two mistakes.

Discuss.

#2 Sammo_*

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Posted 18 January 2006 - 03:55 PM

There are two "are"s.

There's only one mistake, not two :smart:

#3 Evangelion

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Posted 18 January 2006 - 03:57 PM

There are two "are"s.

There's only one mistake, not two :smart:


And that's the second mistake. :coffee:
'Abba Antony said, "A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, 'You are mad, you are not like us.'"'

Ward, Benedicta. The Sayings of the Desert Fathers (2006), Antony 25, p. 5.

Credo.

#4 Jeremy

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Posted 18 January 2006 - 04:51 PM

Clever. It shows how the eye sometimes sees only what the brain wants it to.

#5 Amy Parkin

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Posted 18 January 2006 - 04:56 PM

Yes, I read it "correctly" the first time too.

If we say that the fact we say "there are two mistakes" is wrong, and that there is actually only one, then that makes the statement correct... so the statement is both true and false simultaneously.

And isn't the word "oxymoron" so cool?

#6 Sammo_*

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Posted 18 January 2006 - 05:23 PM

I guess it's a bit like Titus 1:12 - if a Cretan says "All Cretans are liars", can that statement be true? (Although apparantly the guy who wrote that, Epimenides, didn't mean it like that).

Something else I thought was interesting:

Epimenides' poem Cretica is quoted twice in the New Testament. In the poem, Minos addresses Zeus thus:

They fashioned a tomb for thee, O holy and high one—
The Cretans, always liars, evil beasts, idle bellies!
But thou art not dead: thou livest and abidest forever,
For in thee we live and move and have our being.


The "lie" of the Cretans is that Zeus was mortal; Epimenides considered Zeus immortal. The second line is quoted, with a veiled attribution ("a prophet of their own"), in the Epistle to Titus, chapter 1, verse 12, to warn Titus about the Cretans. "Cretans, always liars", with the same theological intent as Epimenides, also appears in the Hymn to Zeus of Callimachus. The fourth line is quoted without attribution in the Acts of the Apostles, chapter 17, verse 28.

Source

Edited by Sammo, 19 January 2006 - 03:03 PM.


#7 Tarinus_*

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 06:00 AM

This is doing my head in... :confused:

#8 Asyncritus

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 07:23 AM

If ALL Cretans are liars, then the Cretan guy who wrote that was also a liar, and the statement may also be a lie! So where does that leave us, I wonder.

#9 Evangelion

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 10:06 AM

Actually, we can declare that Adanac's sentence is false without fear of of self-contradiction.

Thus:
  • Adanac's sentence does not contain two errors, but one grammatical mistake and one false statement.

  • The mistake is obvious: "are are."

  • The false statement is the claim that the sentence contains two mistakes.

  • The false statement is not an mistake, because it is not a error; it was deliberate.

  • The grammatical error remains an error, regardless of whether or not it was deliberately inserted. (At the very most, we could call it a deliberate error.)

  • Conclusion: Adanac's sentence is false. It contains not two mistakes, but one mistake and one false statement.
:smart:

Edited by Evangelion, 21 January 2006 - 10:24 AM.

'Abba Antony said, "A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, 'You are mad, you are not like us.'"'

Ward, Benedicta. The Sayings of the Desert Fathers (2006), Antony 25, p. 5.

Credo.

#10 Evangelion

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 10:24 AM

:blink:
'Abba Antony said, "A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, 'You are mad, you are not like us.'"'

Ward, Benedicta. The Sayings of the Desert Fathers (2006), Antony 25, p. 5.

Credo.

#11 graknil_*

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Posted 21 January 2006 - 06:46 PM

The other mistake is the word.

#12 SoaringEagle_*

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Posted 10 June 2006 - 05:31 PM

Epimenides' Paradox: A Logical Discrepancy In Titus 1:12?
by Zach Smith


Paul was a well-educated man. He was trained by the highly respected Jewish teacher, Gamaliel (Acts 22:3; 5:34), and was knowledgeable not only in Jewish Scripture and literature, but also in classical Greek literature. While lecturing a group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers in Acts 17:22-34, Paul, in verse 28, quoted from Epimenides’ Cretica (“For in him we live and move and have our being”) and Aratus’ Phaenomena (“For we are also his offspring”), using these two pagan poets to make a point. In 1 Corinthians 15:33, Paul quoted from Menander’s comedy Thais (“Evil company corrupts good habits”). However, when Paul spoke to Titus concerning his mission on the island of Crete, some critics have suggested that the apostle committed a logical fallacy by quoting the Cretan poet Epimenides: “One of them, a prophet of their own, said, ‘Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.’ This testimony is true” (Titus 1:12-13a).

This is a form of the logical paradox commonly known as Epimenides’ Paradox: “A Cretan said, ‘All Cretans are liars.’ ” If, as Paul affirms, this statement is true, then the statement is false because a Cretan, who is a liar, made it. These affirmations—that the statement is true and the statement is false—contradict each other and violate the Law of Non-Contradiction, because a statement cannot be both true and false at the same time. The Islamic apologist M.S.M. Saifullah stated concerning Titus 1:12, “The writer Paul at least on this occasion, was without Divine Guidance for he did not discern the subtlety” (Saifullah, 1999). What is a Christian’s response to this attack upon the infallibility of the inspired Word?

The first step in understanding this alleged contradiction is to realize that Epimenides was a poet. Poets, playwrights, and other writers sometimes use a literary technique known as hyperbole, which is a deliberate exaggeration used to make a point. To say that “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons,” is to say that the Cretan society as a whole was immoral and decadent, not necessarily that every single individual in that society was a liar, evil beast, or lazy glutton. When viewed in the light of hyperbole, there is no logical paradox found in Titus 1:12. Epimenides had made a hyperbolic statement regarding the conduct of the people of Crete, and Paul was agreeing with him in order to point out to Titus the difficulty facing the Cretan elders. Paul was not affirming a contradiction, but following a common literary convention. Once again, our Bible shines through as an inerrant book that allowed the authors’ writing styles to remain intact while maintaining the integrity of the inspired Word.

#13 Phil

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Posted 11 June 2006 - 08:32 PM

Huh? There's nothing paradoxical about "all cretans are liars". Being a liar doesn't mean that every statement uttered is a lie, it just means that your behaviour happens to include regular lying. Liars are more than capable of dispensing truth on the odd occasion.

#14 ucim4jc_*

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 12:40 PM

In this sentence there are are two mistakes.


Okay, depending on how you work this, there is either a paradox to the number of mistakes in this statement or two mistakes. The paradox results from working the way most of you are looking at it, grammatically and then based on truthfulness (i.e. two "are's" is a grammatical error, while finding only one grammatical error incites that the statement of two "mistakes" is untrue). So, the "mistake list."

1. Two "are's"
2. If there is one grammatical error then the statement is false by using the number two.
3. If there are not two mistakes then there is a grammatical error in using the plural form of "mistakes."
2. If you grant that either of the second or third mistakes is true then the third mistake is not.
1. If you base that finding the second error as being dependant on the sentence then it is also false.
Paradox. So we find that there is only one error in the sentence. Until we find that there is only one error in the sentence. I did like the descrepency based on the term "mistake" though. However, the same paradox is achieved when even when applying it.

So, how many mistakes are there? Well, grammatically speaking there are two, and I mean that in the sence of, "It will take two corrections to make the sentence grammatically correct." Finding the number of mistakes through deduction results in a paradox, so conclusion is the only way to truly assess how many errors there are.

The following are two ways to change the sentence and make it grammatically correct. Once again, They are only true by stating what they are not by fixing them. If fixed then the paradox arises again.

First

1. Take away one "are."
2. Add a comma after the prepositional phrase, at the beginning of the sentence.

Second (Conversational English)

1. Add a comma after the prepositional phrase, at the beginning of the sentence.
2. Add an elipses after the first "are."

Enjoy the Day,

WSM




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