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Is There Life On Other Planets?


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#1 Guest_Colter_*

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 07:51 AM

One of my friends in the nut house posted this. Could be some interesting news comming down the pike.




During the last week, George Noory has had two guests on Coast to Coast AM which have spoken of the possibility of life on Saturn's largest moon, Titan.

Richard C. Hoagland says the Jet Propulsion Laboratory Web site is astonishingly silent on the nature of the discovery of complex molecules associated with life processes in Titan's upper atmosphere (See UPI article below). He alleges that this may be one of the most startling discoveries of modern science, and that people at NASA might be holding back the information until a full fledged report is produced-- this could be Nobel Prize material.


One of his guests (Jordan Maxwell) was talking about life on Titan a few days earlier. He was cut off in the middle of his conversation, only to find out that his phone was disconnected during the call. The phone company confirmed the disconnnection, but would not say who was responsible, and reported the number was no longer available.

This guest has since received death threats. His web site has been hacked.

See:

http://www.jordanmaxwell.com/home.html

See more at

www.coasttocoastam.com

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In the Stars: Is there life on Titan?

By PHIL BERARDELLI

WASHINGTON, April 28 (UPI) -- The giant moon Titan orbits Saturn some 800 million miles away from the sun. It is so cold -- hundreds of degrees below zero, both Fahrenheit and Celsius -- it might harbor dark seas of liquid methane, which also produces rain in the dense atmosphere. Water ice forms, not in massive blocks as it does on Earth, but as fine particles, perhaps acting on Titan's shores the way sand does on terrestrial beaches.

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Cassini completes fourth flyby of Titan (March 31, 2005) -- NASA's Cassini spacecraft successfully completed its fourth flyby of Saturn's giant moon Titan on Thursday. At its closest approach, the ... > full story

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------

At first glance, a planet such as this -- Titan is a moon, but it is larger than Mercury and Pluto and its diameter is three-quarters the size of Mars -- would not be considered a prime candidate for life. Yet certain hints are beginning to appear that counter such an assumption.

Could the discovery of living organisms elsewhere in the solar system occur not on the red planet next door, but the orange-hazed world nearly a billion miles away?

During its closest flyby of Titan on April 16, NASA's Cassini spacecraft detected some surprisingly complex organic molecules floating in its upper atmosphere. Specifically, the spacecraft's mass spectrometer picked up the presence of a variety of hydrocarbons, including ethane and even octane -- the same substance that boosts performance in automotive engines.

The discovery goes against pre-existing concepts about Titan's atmosphere, particularly that nothing complex could remain there because of the low temperatures. The nitrogen and methane that compose the bulk of the atmosphere were expected to form larger hydrocarbon molecules in reactions with sunlight, or with electromagnetic energy emanating from Saturn, but those molecules were supposed to be rare and quickly rain down to the surface.

Cassini's latest data therefore pose a mystery: what kind of chemistry is driving hydrocarbon production in Titan's atmosphere? Is it the same process that governed the early atmosphere of Earth, which helped life to spring forth? Or, could it be those molecules are the signs of living systems at work on the surface?

"We are beginning to appreciate the role of the upper atmosphere in the complex carbon cycle that occurs on Titan," said Dr. Hunter Waite, principal investigator of the Cassini ion and neutral mass spectrometer -- the instrument that detected the molecules -- and professor at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. "Ultimately, this information from the Saturn system will help us determine the origins of organic matter within the entire solar system."

In other words, Waite asked, "What is the ultimate source of the organics in the solar system?"

The presence of organic molecules on Titan is not the issue. Astronomers have inferred the presence of organics even in the vast clouds of dust found between the stars. One such cloud -- the remnant of an ancient giant star that exploded in a supernova -- formed the sun, Earth and the rest of the solar system.

The key ingredient is oxygen. The atmospheres of the four giant outer planets -- Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune -- plus Titan are rich methane and nitrogen, but are largely devoid of oxygen, which has acted as the catalyst for the proliferation of life on Earth.

In those cases, organics are produced by the interaction of ultraviolet light from the sun, or energetic particle radiation -- from Saturn's magnetic field in the case of Titan -- with atmospheric nitrogen and methane.

The question is, what else might be going on?

Cassini's April 16 flyby of Titan was its sixth in a series of 45 planned encounters over the next several years. So far, along with the latest discovery, the spacecraft's instruments have observed a surface that seems very young by geological standards, meaning it is active, like Earth's. An active surface means there are sources of heat, possibly from volcanism or the gravitational tugs of the more than 30 other worlds orbiting Saturn.

Where there is heat and nourishment -- hydrocarbons falling from the sky could be food in some biosystems -- there could be life. It is not an impossibility.

Cassini's repeated observations should help scientists answer some of the emerging questions about Titan, but the best way to explore this fascinating place is to send another probe to the surface.

Perhaps then, the answer to another mystery might be found.

Last Jan. 14, during its descent to Titan and brief lifetime on the surface, the European Huygens probe snapped a rather striking photo. For one thing, it revealed the moon's landscape looking amazingly like a shoreline bordered by rolling, snow-covered hills. Of course, the ocean and snow, if it existed, would have been composed of methane.

Also appearing in the photo, however, is a structure consisting of two straight sides joined at a point, like a very large, v-shaped wall.

The image is rather fuzzy and, no doubt, there is some logical explanation for the feature that does not involve the Titanian equivalent of China's Great Wall.

Still, the intriguing thought remains: Did Huygens casually capture and transmit the first photograph of an alien artifact?

Unlikely, but not impossible.

Editors: UPI photos WAX2005042601 and WAX2005042701 are available

In the Stars is a series examining new discoveries about the cosmos, by Phil Berardelli, UPI's Science & Technology editor. E-mail: sciencemail@upi.com

Copyright 2005 by United Press International. All Rights Reserved.

#2 Hyperion

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 08:04 AM

I don’t see any reason to be worried about life on other planets. Maybe there is, maybe there isn’t. Either way, it would not affect my beliefs.

OTOH, intelligent life on another planet would be a challenge.

But so far, that looks to be extremely unlikely. Decades of SETI, and even more relevantly, the Fermi Paradox make the most likely conclusion to be that intelligent life does not exist elsewhere.

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#3 Fortigurn

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 08:06 AM

I don’t see any reason to be worried about life on other planets. Maybe there is, maybe there isn’t. Either way, it would not affect my beliefs.

Same here.

OTOH, intelligent life on another planet would be a challenge.


Strange as it may seem, that wouldn't fuss me in the least.

But so far, that looks to be extremely unlikely. Decades of SETI, and even more relevantly, the Fermi Paradox make the most likely conclusion to be that intelligent life does not exist elsewhere.


I certainly agree. :yep:

#4 Guest_scooter_*

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 08:24 AM

:bye: I dont know, but I would wager, if I did that, that there isnt, any where in the entire universe.

#5 Guest_Colter_*

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 08:44 AM

Christadelphian replies to such matters are so predictable if i could some how trade them on the futures exchange in Chicago I could make a fortune.

As we continue to look deeper into space we discover galaxy after galaxy, millions of light years away but I could predict that were we ever to discover ET life you guy's would think it was a conspiracy by science against the bible.

This picture was taken by the Hubble telescope, the light from this galaxy started its journy 190,000 years ago. Snap out of it guy's, your smart people. :shades:

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#6 Hyperion

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 08:44 AM

Decades of SETI...make the most likely conclusion to be that intelligent life does not exist elsewhere.

Of course an alien's SETI program detecting this planet's television broadcasts would likely come to the same conclusion.

"Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all." (1 Tim 1:15)
"Apply yourself wholly to the text; apply the text wholly to yourself" (Johann Albrecht Bengel)
Christadelphian Books Online | The Agora | Toronto West Christadelphians


#7 Hyperion

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 08:50 AM

Christadelphian replies to such matters are so predictable if i could some how trade them on the futures exchange in Chicago I could make a fortune.

As we continue to look deeper into space we discover galaxy after galaxy, millions of light years away but I could predict that were we ever to discover ET life you guy's would think it was a conspiracy by science against the bible.

Did you actually read what Fort and I wrote?

"Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all." (1 Tim 1:15)
"Apply yourself wholly to the text; apply the text wholly to yourself" (Johann Albrecht Bengel)
Christadelphian Books Online | The Agora | Toronto West Christadelphians


#8 Guest_Colter_*

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 08:54 AM

This cluster of gallaxies is 2.6 million light years away. It's 6,000 light years across.


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#9 Fortigurn

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 08:55 AM

This cluster of gallaxies is 2.6 million light years away. It's 6,000 light years across.


Posted Image

Wow. :shrug:

#10 Guest_Colter_*

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 08:56 AM

Christadelphian replies to such matters are so predictable if i could some how trade them on the futures exchange in Chicago I could make a fortune.

As we continue to look deeper into space we discover galaxy after galaxy, millions of light years away but I could predict that were we ever to discover ET life you guy's would think it was a conspiracy by science against the bible.

Did you actually read what Fort and I wrote?

yes, I read it. :shades:

#11 Fortigurn

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 08:58 AM

Christadelphian replies to such matters are so predictable if i could some how trade them on the futures exchange in Chicago I could make a fortune.

As we continue to look deeper into space we discover galaxy after galaxy, millions of light years away but I could predict that were we ever to discover ET life you guy's would think it was a conspiracy by science against the bible.

Did you actually read what Fort and I wrote?

yes, I read it. :shades:

And? :confused:

#12 Hyperion

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 09:08 AM

This cluster of gallaxies is 2.6 million light years away. It's 6,000 light years across.

Actually if it is only 2.6 million ly away and 6,000 ly across, it is not a cluster of galaxies.

Perhaps you meant a cluster of stars?

"Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all." (1 Tim 1:15)
"Apply yourself wholly to the text; apply the text wholly to yourself" (Johann Albrecht Bengel)
Christadelphian Books Online | The Agora | Toronto West Christadelphians


#13 Guest_Colter_*

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 09:09 AM

Christadelphian replies to such matters are so predictable if i could some how trade them on the futures exchange in Chicago I could make a fortune.

As we continue to look deeper into space we discover galaxy after galaxy, millions of light years away but I could predict that were we ever to discover ET life you guy's would think it was a conspiracy by science against the bible.

Did you actually read what Fort and I wrote?

yes, I read it. :shades:

And? :confused:

Well,

1) A galaxy 2.6 million light years away as the speed of light is measured would establish that the universe is a little older then the Genesis account. :shades:

2) If there is life on other worlds was it there before our life started with the story of Adam and Eve? :tarkus:

3) The implications are mind boggling.

4) But God has already updated this for us. :colter: :whistling:

Edited by Colter, 29 April 2005 - 09:23 AM.


#14 Hyperion

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 09:11 AM

yes, I read it. :shades:

So what did your response have to do with what Fort and I said?

Fort has no problems with the idea of intelligent life elsewhere. I would find it a challenge, but if it is discovered, I'd accept the discovery.

So far it looks unlikely that it will be, that is the simplest solution to the Fermi Paradox.

"Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all." (1 Tim 1:15)
"Apply yourself wholly to the text; apply the text wholly to yourself" (Johann Albrecht Bengel)
Christadelphian Books Online | The Agora | Toronto West Christadelphians


#15 Guest_Colter_*

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 09:11 AM

This cluster of gallaxies is 2.6 million light years away. It's 6,000 light years across.

Actually if it is only 2.6 million ly away and 6,000 ly across, it is not a cluster of galaxies.

Perhaps you meant a cluster of stars?

:oops: , yep, that would be stars :shy: my meds are wearing off.

Edited by Colter, 29 April 2005 - 09:13 AM.


#16 Hyperion

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 09:20 AM

1) A galaxy 2.6 million light years away as the speed of light is measured would establish that the universe is a little older then the Genesis account. :shades:

I believe the universe to be approx. 14 billion years old - I see no conflict with Genesis in this.

2) If there is life on other worlds was it there before our life started with the story of Adam and Eve? :tarkus:

Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. If by "life" you mean "intelligent life", perhaps you would like to explain why we have not seen it yet. If intelligent life exists in our galaxy, it would take it only a few million years to settle the rest of the galaxy. If it exists, it should be here. So where is it?

"Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all." (1 Tim 1:15)
"Apply yourself wholly to the text; apply the text wholly to yourself" (Johann Albrecht Bengel)
Christadelphian Books Online | The Agora | Toronto West Christadelphians


#17 Fortigurn

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 09:20 AM

Well,

1) A galaxy 2.6 million light years away as the speed of light is measured would establish that the universe is a little older then the Genesis account. :shades:

Both Hyperion and I agree that the universe is very old, and that the Genesis account gives no description of the age of the universe.

2) If there is life on other worlds was it there before our life started with the story of Adam and Eve?


I don't really care. It makes no difference to my personal beliefs one way or another.

3) The implications are mind boggling.


What implications? :confused:

#18 blue_*

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 09:21 AM

Maybe there are aliens maybe there isnt, either way Ive got enough to think about right now with passing uni!

:hitchhike: Most importantly though on the subject of aliens....had last night off and went to see Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. Id never read the book although I have many friends who say its good. Film was very funny, Vogonsphere is like the planning and regulations council departments architects have to work with!

:rolleyes: I was also in full uncomplicated and devoted love with 'Trillion'/Zoey Deschanel for two hours, she is a mighty fine babe of the highest magnitude, which should be acknowledged here. The nerd who got to kiss her was pathetic though. :phil:

#19 Guest_Colter_*

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 10:44 AM

Hiperion and Fortigurn,

Because I'm a believer in the UB I believe the universe to be much larger than anyone ever imagined and when we get to the end of the inhabited universe there is activity beyond that in the newly forming areas. I've always believed that life far more intelligent than ours is out there. Ever here the Hi pitch of a dog whistle? You can't because it's outside of our range of hearing. There are energies outside of our vision like angelic forms, like the Midwayers that rolled away the stone on Jesus tomb. When Jesus was in the river Jordan being baptized his vision was anointed and he could behold the heavens and see a vast array of beings subservient to HIM that we cannot see. So I think there are things out there, but we cannot see them!

The question of why we've not been contacted is a good one. After the rebellion ( lets just use the fruit off the forbidden tree event) I think our planet was cut off from the universe circuits. Being in quarantine could explain it but I also ask the same question, why no other space travel or radio frequency contact? Is it being blocked because of our troubled world? Do "normal" worlds of light and life have a space program? Is their faith such that they don't feel the need to "know" what is out there?

Fortigurn, the implication in Genesis is that the A&E creation event was Gods first life creation event. We have asteroids floating around in (our) solar system that seem to be very old.

The Universe is old but not the earth???????

I was very disappointed to see that the creation thread was shut down, it leads me to believe you have something to hide. We of faith should never ever be afraid of what science finds even though at times it may appear to contradict "parts" of our religion. Just as science has to update itself so does religion. That's my problem with my friends here, you are still using "old" software even though God has given you the new version to compensate for what science has figured out in the twentieth century.

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Edited by Colter, 29 April 2005 - 10:52 AM.


#20 Adanac

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 10:52 AM

If life did exist on another planet it is perfectly conceivable that on their planet 1 + 1 does not equal 2.




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