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#121 Guest_scooter_*

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Posted 12 February 2005 - 01:37 AM

The mark all worry about isnt going to be the 6 we use in the english language, or the spanish, etc. It will be the number 6 in the Hebrew language, which BTW, is also G-Ds language. This six will look a lot like our seven with a smaller top. If I had the correct way to put it here I would, but this PC wont copy Hebrew letters.

#122 Mercia2

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Posted 12 February 2005 - 04:25 PM

I thought 6 in hebrew was a "w", so that everytime we type www we are typing 666 in Hebrew?
In anycase, the book of Revelation was written in Greek, and the name of the man is revealed in Latin.

Edited by Mercia2, 12 February 2005 - 04:26 PM.

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#123 Guest_scooter_*

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Posted 12 February 2005 - 06:52 PM

Actually, the letter that kind of looks like a w is the sheen, or signatire of G-D, It can be seen at the Temple mount. it is comprised of the three gullys, or the three gashes/rivers? Rivers is a bad way to say it, but dont know the correct word. It actually looks like a Y with another cut on it making the w form. The vowel is the actual Temple, or where it shjould be.

#124 Mercia2

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 07:59 PM

Now in the King James Bible, certain verses are related to what they reveal (please follow in the Word). John 6:66 speaks of what causes the falling away, the verse reads “and from that time many of his disciples went back and walked no more with Him(and the reason why is revealed in the prevous words ending John 6:66).

Now the context is set in two senses in relation to Egypt or natural man (that the message is foolishness to those who perceive it in this degree) and because verse 26 says the bread they were following Jesus for was carnal not spiritual (they were walking after their lusts or carnal nature, not their spiritual nature), “verily I say unto you, ye seek Me not because ye saw the miracles BUT BECAUSE YE DID EAT OF THE LOVES AND WERE FILLED”.

We will later see that two things have caused the falling away, man walking after his carnal nature, and the spirit of Egypt – and the message of salvation being foolishness to natural man (who is a spiritual Egyptian). Both are revealed in the words and context of John 6:23 and John 6:66. To the natural man, the message of bread in the spiritual sense was foolishness (2 Corin 1:18; 2:14), as they could only understand the natural sense, not spiritual sense of the Lords words (John 6:51-6:66), “this is the bread which came down from heaven, not as your fathers did eat man-na and are dead…many therefore of his disciples when they heard this said, this is a hard saying, who can understand it?” And also because, as verse 6:26 puts it, you seek Me not because you are walking after the spirit, but because you are walking afer your lusts “but BECAUSE YE DID EAT OF THE LOAVES AND WERE FILLED”.

Thus John 6:66 teaches us that it is a combination of these two factors that causes the falling away (and as will be proven catorically later on) “and from that time many of His disciples when back and walked with Him no more” (John 6:66).

This typifies the type that are exposed (as microcosm and as macrocosm) in the latter days because of their nature (affections). Those who walk after the lusts of this world, represent those who take the mark (live for what it represents – 666 in the forehead, the mind) - and die, “For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live”. (Rom 8:13).

Thus in John 6 the same is revealed, once they learnt that Christianity would not necessarily result in all “the goodly and dainty” things of Egypt or Babylon, “from that time many of His disciples went back and walked with him no more” (John 6:66).

The context of 666 (is the falling away, related to food in the natural sense) in which it would also apply (being the basic of motivations as representing our carnal nature) in a time of abundance (as in the days of Sodom) “This was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, FULNESS OF FOOD “ as opposed to food in the spiritual sense, as Jesus was only offering bread in the spiritual sense (the bread or words of eternal life), and thus they [or those who were walking after their lusts, as today in this time of abundance] walked with Him no more.

What this therefore tells us the mark of the beast will ultimately represent is a world walking after its lusts in the natural degree (food and abundance in the natural degree) and not food and abundance or knowledge in the spiritual degree. The world being carnal walkes after the former, and is only interested in the former, and the same has caused the falling away.

“Feed me with me food convenient to me,
lest I be full, and deny Thee, and say ‘Who is the Lord?”
Proverbs 30:8-9

Further – it is only interested in following God as it believes in doing so it shall be blessed (in the carnal sense), for the same Jesus said you are only following me as you believe I shall fulfil or satisy that nature “because ye did eat of the loaves and were filled” (yet Jesus came to tell us we must no longer walk after that nature) but infact leave the natural degree (Egypt). So that in todays context, there is food or bread in abundance (as in the days of Sodom), but millions are starving for not hearing the words/bread of life, “the flesh profiteth nothing, the words that I speak unto you, they are the spirit, and they are the life” (John 6:63), so what is in abundance naturally, is so scarce that men are starving and dying spiritually. One is as oppossite to those other, as we will later see is mans natural perception of the Word in every sense from his spiritual perception that is as oppossite to the truth as what is natural is opposite to what is spiritual and true, just as the carnal mind is death, so the spiritual mind is life (the opposite).

This is so important, as the church who upholds the natural degree (and tells people to look on things as to their appearances) represent those who have received a strong delusion (in this precise context) in the time of the end (the last 100 years) – the God said he would send. It is so vital the latter day church is not deceived in this respect (as our perceptions reveal our affections).

When the Jews were in the wilderness and being tested, they were in natural affections, and not spiritual affections (which is also why they later perceived in the Word in only the natural degree – in relation the prophecies of Jesus). While in the wilderness they complained and moaned that while they were in Egypt they had a abundance of food, yet in the natural degree they were now worse of (deprived of the goodly and dainty things of Egypt) but being prepared for the new age to come (and that which would bring them under subjection to God). Yet the lesson that typifies today (the same as the context above) in that the food they longed after was not spiritual food, but in the literal sense, they longed to fulfil their carnal lusts, and as the Church and indeed the world is following the precise same pattern as that story – as this was the very context of the Lords ministry (it is in this sense the mark of the beast in its ulitimate sense or manifestation would always apply). Thus, they were not deprived of their lusts yet those who lived just for this nature alone (who eat and eat annd became fat) were like beasts, motivated by not the bread of life or the Spirit (that which makes us different from the animals) but their carnal or beastly nature/instincts like today, thus they were as beasts (as Isaiah says in the prophecy that relates to these very days) “GREEDY DOGS [beasts] who can never have enough” (Isa 57:11), and thus the wrath of God fell upon the fattest of them. So that like today the same is represented in the Word, and the same (consumerism) and man living for that aspect of his nature has (combined with natural mans perception and trust in science) caused the corporate falling away of these last days “and they walked with him no more” (John 6:66).

Therefore we read in John verse 6:66 (the context of that which would cause the falling away), which is man living for his carnal nature, not spiritual food, but natural food, “from that time many disciples went back, and walked no more with him” (and the context in which the mark of the beast would always apply). Walking after ones lusts – not the spirit – and the context is the antitype or opposite (food), in the natural sense, - not the spiritual sense. Thus the now global mark of the beast is what it is – as representing “the hour of temptation which shall come upon ALL THE WORLD” (Rev 3:10) – and this testing (as typifiying the Chruch of the last era, Rev 3:10) would be in the exact same context as the testing as represented in types and pattterns (as part of the Israelites coming forth out of Egypt) – the same today (for all of us) – who cannot see this is so?

Edited by Mercia2, 28 February 2005 - 08:04 PM.

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#125 Mercia2

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 08:00 PM

The Carnal mind (and being imbued as to that nature which is what consumerism does) is what has caused the falling away (especially last 10 years) as, like Esua, those who live after the flesh, and are imbued as to that nature, are not under subjection to God, nor do they wish or seek to be. The same lesson is taught to us in the begginning (Genesis) as it is revealed in the end (Revelation). For which reason it is said that Esua state of being meant that he was unable to respond to the Lord, as Esau represented those after the flesh, for which it is said that he was a hunter of flesh (like the spiritual Egyptians/natural man), “Thou hast commited fornication with the EGYPTIANS you neighbours, GREAT OF FLESH” (Ezek. 16:26) and for which reason it is said, “For they that are after the flesh do seek the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit” (Rom 8:6) or God. But this is not the only thing that has caused the falling away – it is a combination of everything revealed in John chapter 6 leading upto John 6:66 that reveals what the Word reveals from start to end, and both relate to natural man.

The first represents the affections of natural man (which will not lead him to seek that which is spiritual or God), and the second (the false prophet as macrocosm) also the beliefs and perceptions of natural man, as relating, in this last age to the (materialistic scientific rationalism) of natural man in which he trusts, (that the message is foolishness to the science and wisdom of natural man), the spirit of this last age – as will be seen. For which reason Paul speaking to the Corinthians who were as yet “still carnal” says the message is foolishness (1 Corin. 1:22- 25; 2:14) to natural man (and the science and wisdom of this world), and as natural man is the beast (and his carnal nature the image of the microcosm now corporate), so it is said of natural man “so FOOLISH was I and IGNORANT, I was a BEAST before thee” for exactly the same reasons, the Jews thinking materially, and from appearances reply to the Lords words by saying “how can this man give us His flesh to eat” (John 6:52) and could not understand the message, which to them was foolishness, and thus - a combination of these two – (1. the affections of natural man) and (2. The science and wisdom of natural man) led in the example “many of his disciples to go back..and they walked with him no more” (John 6:66).

It is these two (the beast and his image = man as to his carnal affections)
And the False prophet as macrocosm (the science and wisdom of natural man). That are now both represented in the Word in this last prophetic era of macrocosm and effect – as representing the perception of natural man, and the affections of natural man that represent the beast and his image - and that together have causes the mass falling away and unbelief of these last days.

John 6:26 = they walked after their lusts (the image of the beast) = Natural Affections
John 6:52; 60 = they perceived not the message – Natural Perceptions/beliefs
John 6:66 = These two caused the falling away “and they walked with Him no more

Thus in the last days the spiritual Egyptians or natural man is depicted as scoffing (due to the perceived increase in his wisdom in these latter days that has deceived him in all that treats of the spiritual) or what is foolishness to Egypt (the science and wisdom of natural man) “First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following [Natural perceptions/belief] their own evil desires [natural affections]”, just as the Egyptian is scoffing at the miraclulous birth of Isaac (virgin birth), “Sarah saw the son of THE EGYPTIAN, which she had born unto Abraham MOCKING”. (As Isaac signifies the Messiah), and 8 signifies the Messiah (Iouses = 888), thus in a grave warning to those who can no longer accept the virgin birth as it does not accord with the science and wisdom of natural man (due the perceived latter day increase in it), which has deceived them in every aspect they apply it to the Word. For the same reason Paul says of natural man, “for the preaching of the message is to them that perish is FOOLISHNESS” (Corin. 1:18; Gen 21:10). This natural man is exposed as the beast (as to his affections) and as to (his perceptions), “so FOOLISH was I and IGNORANT, I was as a BEAST before thee”.

The image of the Beast [man as microcosm] – the papacy
That image = lusting after the things of this world (the flesh) “all that is goodly and dainty….….MERCHANDISE of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple and silk, and scarlet, and all thyne wood, and all manner of vessels of ivory, and all mannor vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and of irn and of marble, and cinnamon and perfumes and ointments and frakinscence and wine and oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep” – here is the image of the beast in the literal or natural sense of the prophetic Word. – walking after his lusts

“Behold, this is their [Romes] resemblance [image] now through all the earth” (Zech 5:6)

The image of the Beast [man as macrocosm] – post 1844 (the New World man)
“PRIDE compasseth tthem about a chain”
“their eyes stand out with fatness THEY HAVE MORE THAN HEART COULD WISH”
“they SCOFF… they speak PROUDLY”
“the ungodly who prosper in the world they INCREASE IN RICHES”
“they set their mouths AGAINST THE HEAVENS”
= “as a dream when one awaketh You shall despise THEIR IMAGE
= “so foolish was I and ignorant I was a BEAST before You” (Psalm 73:6; 7; 9; 12; 20; 21)

As micrcosm, as macrcosm – the world now in his image.
Thus the micrcosm speaks blasphemously = the macrocosm speaks blasphemy
Thus the micrcosm lusts after merchandise = the microcosm lusts after more than heart could wise
Thus the microcosm is proud = the macrocosm is proud
Thus now that image is corporate (as representing the new world man) it is said ….
“as a dream when one awaketh You shall despise THEIR IMAGE”
“I was a BEAST before thee” = for being jelous [carnal] at their prosperity (3)
"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#126 Mercia2

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 08:01 PM

So the context in which the mark of the beast would always apply in the ultimate sense (as in the days of Sodom) was an abundance of food (John 6:26) and merchandise (Rev 18:12) – now in the literal sense of the Word, (post 1844) in this era of macrocosm and now corporate effect.

The beasts of the field are = “greedy Dogs” (Isaiah 56:9)
“All ye BEASTS of the field…are blind [perception] they are all ignorant [so foolish and ignorant I was a beast before thee] ….. they are GREEDY DOGS THAT CAN NEVER HAVE ENOUGH”

But there is one more thing they are – look at the next verse…
“all ye beasts….His watchmen are blind, they are all ignorant, they are dumb dogs, they cannot bark…. They are greedy dogs which can never have enough and they are shepherds that cannot understand…THEY ALL LOOK THEIR OWN WAY, EVERYONE FOR HIS OWN GAIN, FROM HIS OWN QUARTER”. They are self interested. The type that use Christianity as a way to gain respectability and financial gain.

John chapter 6, ending 6:66 reveals one more thing – a self serving type of Christianity
Now please look at John verse 66:26 and what is also here revealed (in relation to the mark of the beast). “verily, verily I say unto you, ye seek me, not because ye saw the signs but BECAUSE YE DID EAT OF THE LOAVES AND WERE FILLED”. Here Jesus says that in the context of what would later apply to the mark of the beast – that His followers were following him as in doing so they believed their carnal nature would or could be fulfilled, as in these words “ye did eat of the loaves and WERE FILLED” or satisfied – though not in the spiritual sense, but here in the natural degree. Now this typifies the type of Christianty that would later be revealed in prophecy. A self interested worldly type that would specifically apply to Rome and the Church/State arrangement were it is said that the woman who is riding (the state or world powers), had satisified almost every conceivable aspect of their carnal nature (Rev 18). Following Jesus it seems for no other reason than as a means of attaining great wealth and satisfying not their spiritual but carnal desires, and that judgement would befall “They were not deprived of their lusts, but while the meat was in their mouths the WRATH OF GOD FELL UPON THE FATTEST OF THEM” (Psl. 78:31)

As in the days of Sodom
“This was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, FULNESS OF FOOD, and abundance of idleness was in her, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.”
Ezekiel 16:49

“Those who, from the moment they existed, DID NOT DESIRE EARTHLY FOOD, but counted themselves as a breath which passes away, and kept to this. And the Lord tested them much, and their spirits were found pure, so that they might bless His Name."
Enoch 108.9

Now as this applied in the first prophetic era ending 1844 (to the Church/Roman Church) – so in the era of macrocosm and effect, those in the new world (as representing the macrocosm or image that speaks) represent the same – that is worldly type of Christians who believe that God is blessing them (in the natural sense) or as in the days of Sodom (where there was also a “abundance” of food) – yet Sodom was not Godly, and thus America is the only country in the world (being the macrocosm) that would dare to put “In God We Trust” on their money (as representing the type typified above) – which we will later see is intrinsicly related to the mark of the beast. And thus they have Presidents who say after state speeches “may God continue to bless America” in this carnal sense (that they may be as Chrisitians, like their image they are copying in the literal sense) rich and prosperous. So that in the Jobian sense, Satan would say (as the parable of John 6:23-6:66) also reveals – that these (both the micrcosm and the macrocosm), being a type related to final judgement, and the mark and image of the beast – are only following Jesus (or God) as a means to an end in the carnal not spiritual sense, (nothing more exemplifying that than having the words – ‘In God We Trust’ on money). While Romes image and the micrcosms (the papacy) being well known in the same context.

“We must continue useing cultural and moral issues to direct Christians toward a conservative free-market ideology, enlisting them in the cause of capitalism”
(PBS special, September the 11th, Republican William Buckley)

“God is a capitalist and freemarketeer”
(Marvin Olasky, George W Bush’s religious advisor and spokesman, post election 2000)

Everything the Christian will experience through the ages that is related to prophecy is revealed in patterns and types in the story of the Israelites coming forth out of Egypt. Even the word ‘Ekklesia” means to “come forth”. It is the whole context of the Christians calling, and thus also the context of prophecy (the Revelation). For which reason the church or woman in Revelation 12 is represented as fleeing into the wilderness as part of its coming forth out of Eggypt or identification with the natural degree (carnal nature) and that which is seen (i.e a Christians perception as to appearances). So that everything the Israelites experienced in the wilderness as they sought to come forth out of Egypt, the Church or Ekklesia would also experience during the 2000 years of prophecy (and therefore be represented in the Revelation) as part of their fleeing into the wilderness (Rev 12:6). Every pattern and type leading up to what today has been revealed as the mark of the beast (being the mark his image and what he lived for – his carnal nature), is also represented in patterns and types as relating to the Israelites coming forth also out of Egypt. So that while the papacy (who is natural and seen), would typify the golden calf (also being natural and what is seen), so the hour of tempation that would come upon the world to test those that dwell on earth represents today (our testing in the wilderness) and the context in which the mark of the beast (as we have seen above) would always apply (Rev 3:10; Ps 78:30; Num 11:31-33; John 6:23; John 6:66). It simply exposes the macrocosm (in the image of the microcosm) or the whole Christian world walking after thier lusts, not spiritual food to satisy their spiritual hunger (John 6:23-6:66) – but in the natural sense the oppossitte (as to fulfil their carnal or beastly nature – their lusts), and that nature which motivates them “MERCHANDISE of...cinnamon, and odours and ointments and frankinscence and wine and oil and fine flour and wheat” etc ect. Those words relating to both spiritual merchandise as pertaining to the era of the Church (and now in its literal sense) – what the papacy or beast as micrcocosm literally coveted (its literal image – the image of the beast), “all that is goodly and dainty” –
"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#127 Mercia2

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 08:02 PM

The beast as microcosm and macrocosm is natural man (and a self serving evil type of worldly yet deceptive Christianity, and what he lusts after (that aspect of his nature) – not what spiritual man desires which is the food of life in abundance (the words of Jesus), but what natural man seeks in abundance, living for that nature – or the image of the beast.

Now the era we are living in is typified by the seven churches in Revelation chapters 1-3 which represents not only seven literal churches in Asia, but seven distinct time-frames within which the church functions. Not seven different dispensations with God operating differently in each period, but simply seven distinct periods or phases that the world and God's people pass through. This will be proven to be the case further on (especially relating to the door that has been left open in the era post 1844), Rev 3:7, this has monumental importance as relating to the cleansing of the sanctuary that happened in 1844, but I will come back to that. If you please refer to Revelation 3:10, bearing in mind the Church is coming forth out of the wilderness (Rev 12:6), and therefore all the patterns and types that applied in the Old Testament would be manifested in prophecy (in the Revelation), as part of the New Covenant context (the whole context of the Lords ministry) to lead us out of Egypt (the natural degree), you will see that in the last age of the church, as already mentioned, there shall be ahour of temptation, which shall come upon the whole world = “he causeth all” = “to TEST those that dwell on earth”, thus it was in this context (as above) and as already stated that the mark of the beast (of his literal image of lusting after merchandise), or living for our carnal nature - would apply. This time not just as relating to one man (the antitye or beast), as was the case in the previous prophetic era, but now as relating to the “the whole world” (the macrocosm of the microcosm) and the type that emerged post 1844 in the New World (its image, formerly the micrcosms image - globalised in the last days).

“The hour of temptation which shall come upon THE WHOLE WORD, to try them that dwell on earth”
(Rev 3:10)

So to simply understand what the hour of temptation [in the wilderness] relates to (and what caused the judgement of God to befall those God was attempting to lead out of Egypt or the natural degree/carnal mind), all we have to do is study the patterns and types of old that would always point to the same today. Thus it is said that those God was leading out of Egypt “were not deprived of their lusts, but while their meat was still in their mouths, the WRATH OF GOD CAME UPON THEM AND SLEW THE FATTEST OF THEM”, and as it is this that typifies judgement, aand is not represented in Revelation 13:14, so it is written “you have FATTENED YOURSELF IN THE DAY OF SLAUGHTER”, as 50% of Americans are now reported to be obese, and that those who are natural (either do no believe in God or worship a man as God and live for that nature) “the SAME shall drink the wine of the WRATH OF GOD” (Rev 13:10).

Now please turn to Isaiah 56:9-12 and you will see it (being a prophecy that relates to final judgement) reveals exactly the same, even beginning by revealing who it shall expose, in these words “all ye BEASTS OF THE FIELD… Yea they are GREEDY DOGS [Beasts], which can NEVER HAVE ENOUGH, and they are shepherds that cannot understand, they all look their own way, everyone for his gain, to his own quarter”.

Thus, as in the days of Sodom, so shall it be in the days of the coming of the son of man. Not only was their a abundance of food (materialistic society), but like most of the churches today, the other sin of Sodom (and the sin of the self serving type of Christians represented in those words of Isaiah above), was that they did not strengthen the hand of the poor and needy (the churches specific calling in the time of the end – as in Matthew), “This was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom…FULNESS OF FOOD, and abundance of idleness was in her, NEITHER DID SHE STRENGTHEN THE HAND OF THE POOR AND NEEDY” Ezekiel 16:49. Thus the same is said of the shephards today (Isa 56:11).
.
Now please turn back to John verse 6:26 to 6:66 where the context as above is revealed. As already mentioned verse 6:26 reveals the context in these words “verily, verily I say unto you, ye seek me not because of the signs but BECAUSE YE DID EAT OF THE LOAVES AND WERE FILLED – or because their carnal self interests (not spiritual interests) were fulfilled. Now turn to Isaiah 56:11 and read the same in these words “they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand, THEY ALL LOOK THEIR OWN WAY, EVERY ONE TO THEIR OWN GAIN.[/B] Both typify the type of Christian (as microcosm, and as macrocosm) that are revealed and condemned in the Revelation[B]. Pertaining firstly to the micrcosm or papacy, and now (post 1844) to the macrcosm and the now corporate type of self serving worldly and carnal Christianity that emerged in the New World (who whilst escaping Rome) actually gave life to the microcosm literal image and told the world to do likewise (being the image that speaks). So that while America asks God to bless it in this carnal sense, and prints ‘In God We Trust” on its money, so the same (man living for those lusts or that nature has caused the falling away) “and they walked with Him no more” (John 6:66). Thus also for the same reason it was said to those God was also trying to lead out of the wilderness “and they tempted God in their heart BY ASKING MEAT FOR THEIR LUSTS” (Pslam 78:18). and they/we have not been deprived of our lusts, yet as living for that nature has also caused a mass falling away and unbelief of the last days, and it is a false and shallow and hypocritical and self serving.

"Blessed be the name of the God for ever and ever, for wisdom and might are His..He giveth wisdom unto the wise and knoweldge to them that know understanding, He revealth the deep and secret things: He knoweth what is in the darkness and the light dwelleth with Him. I thank thee, and praise thee O thou God of my fathers, who had given me wisdom and might, and hast made known unto to me what we asked…there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrests"
(Dan. 2:20, 28)

Edited by Mercia2, 28 February 2005 - 08:04 PM.

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#128 Mercia2

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Posted 01 March 2005 - 04:13 PM

what relevance is it how it is written in tjhe Greek? If i wrote it in English it would be six hundred and sixty six. In other words the same.
If I write it is numbers and not letters its 666.
Your missing the mark completely here David.
6 is the number of man, and 3 is symbollic of his plan (Abraham/Father - Isaac/Christ - Jacob/Spirit), and in the oppossite sense the Dragon/Beast/False Prophet. 666 is mans plan as oppossed to Gods.

Edited by Mercia2, 01 March 2005 - 04:15 PM.

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#129 Mercia2

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Posted 01 March 2005 - 04:19 PM

"because he TRANSGRESSETH BY WINE, HE IS A PROUD MAN, who enlargeth HIS DESIRE AS HELL, AND IS AS DEATH AND CANNOT BE SATISFIED" (Hab 2:3), hence "this is their resemblance [image] through all the world" (Zech 6:6), or "for all the nations have drunk the wine of the wrath of her fornications", therefore "the nations are mad", or spiritually insane

"WOE UNTO THEM who are WISE IN THEIR OWN EYES, and prudent in their own sight!…MIGHTY TO DRINK WINE, and men of strength to mingle strong drink" (Is 5:22), this is the true effect of Rome, and that's why the angel said none of the wicked would understand.

THE NATIONS DRINK THE WINE OF THE WRATH of HER FORNICATIONS"
(Rev. 14:8).
This does not mean the nations are mad because they copied the doctrine of the Trinity.
Rome is called Babylon because of its heircachel Babylonish priest hood, and because of its dominion over holy things. The nations are drunk of her wine and mad because they are in the same literal image (a carnal or natural man) as the antitype or beast. A type that cannot understand, "but the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, NEITHER CAN HE UNDERSTAND THEM for he is spiritually discerned" (1 Corin 2:14). And as natural man is now the image of the beast (corporate),being man imbued as to that nature, therefore the same is said of those in the Church who are the same (Beasts) ""All ye BEASTS of the field…are greedy dogs which can never have enough, AND THEY ARE SHEPHARDS THAT CANNOT UNDERSTAND".
Which is signified by the "wages" or effect of Babylons cup - the spirit of Egypt (the spirit of these last days). Thus it is said, "they have caused EGYPT to err in every work thereof, AS A DRUNKEN MAN staggereth in his vomit" (Is. 19:14)
"therefore all the NATIONS ARE MAD

"woe to the crown of PRIDE of the DRUNKARDS of Ephraim" (Isaiah 31:1); "because he transgresseth with WINE he is a PROUD man" (Hab. 2:5).

Likewise everywhere in the Word, wine also signifies the pride of self derived intelligence and the perception of natural man destroyed in all the treats of the spiritual (Is. 29:9). As also in these words, "Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are OVERCOME WITH WINE…. they also have ERRED THROUGH WINE, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are SWALLOWED UP OF WINE, they are out of the way through strong drink; THEY ERR IN VISION [PERCEPTION], they stumble in judgment….whom shall he teach knowledge? And WHOM SHALL HE TEACH KNOWLEDGE? AND WHOM SHALL ME MAKE TO UNDERSTAND DOCTRINE? THEM THAT ARE WEANED FROM THE MILK, AND DRAWN FROM THE BREAST?…..Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: THEY ARE DRUNKEN", (Is. 28:1, 7, 9). It is said here, who shall I teach knowledge, them that are just weaned from the breast? As these are those without assumption, without presuppositions brought from the world (from Egypt, the science and wisdom of natural man) to the Word that then affects what they 'see' in the Word and what they believe in the Word. Natural man is too in the world, and trusts in the information he receives at the level of his senses, therefore he brings presuppositions to the Word based upon what he already believes (due his trust in Egypt and information derived at the level of his senses, and perceived increase in latter day wisdom), which God then turns to insanity in all that treats of the Spiritual, as this is what the Lord has "purposed upon Egypt" when brought by pressuppossition from the world and applied to the Word. "Where are they? Where are thy wise men? And let them tell thee now, and let them know what the THE LORD HATH PURPOSED UPON EGYPT" (Isaiah 19:12). And on each count we trust in Egypt over the Word and apply the principles of Egypt (dominant linear mode) to the Word and bring presuppositions from Egypt (that is the world) to the Word we become drunk (of Romes wine as this is the real effect and deception the wages or effect of Babylon being Egypt) - which is the true deception or effect of the first and longest prophetic age (now) as to perception (being drunk) and understanding, as represented in these words, "they have caused EGYPT to err in every work thereof, AS A DRUNKEN MAN staggereth in his vomit" (Is. 19:14).

Edited by Mercia2, 01 March 2005 - 09:12 PM.

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#130 Fortigurn

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Posted 01 March 2005 - 05:39 PM

what relevance is it how it is written in tjhe Greek? If i wrote it in English it would be six hundred and sixty six. In other words the same.

But if the mark is supposed to be the numbers '666', then what John wrote is not the mark. He wrote words. :book:

#131 Mercia2

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Posted 01 March 2005 - 07:57 PM

The number is that of a man (microcosm of modern man in his image).
The mark is of how he (and all those in his image/charachter) are imbued (what they live for), "Merchandise of....all that is goodly and dainty....all thy heart desires" (Rev 16:12-16) in a carnal sense. And Revelation 18 is definately talking about literal merchandise as it says elsewhere they have lived "deliciously on earth".

Romes wine is often referred to as her pagan doctrines, yet this is unsupported by the Bible symbollism in the Old Testament (see above). The symbollism reveals a certain carnal charachter (proud/materialistic), and it is the effect (or vomit) of that wine that then RESULTS in spiritual drunkeness *(poor spiritual perception - and drunken shephards that cant understand).

Edited by Mercia2, 01 March 2005 - 07:59 PM.

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#132 Mercia2

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Posted 01 March 2005 - 08:04 PM

The context is definately correct as Old Testament prophecies that speak of the Day of the Lord speak of judgement on the House of Esua (the kingdom of materialistically imbued natural man after the flesh), as Esua was.

Obadiah 1:18
The house of Jacob will be a fire and the house of Joseph a flame; the house of Esau will be stubble, and they will set it on fire and consume it. There will be no survivors from the house of Esau." The LORD has spoken.

Jacob is the spiritual man
Esua is the carnally motivated man (consumerism etc).

Just saying your Christian does not mean you thus escape being part of the kingdom of Esua - but how you live (if you are dead to those affections) - "all that is goodly and dainty" in this materialistic/fleshly sense.

Edited by Mercia2, 01 March 2005 - 08:05 PM.

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#133 Mercia2

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Posted 01 March 2005 - 08:06 PM

As men in their natural state are carnally motivated like the animals, God likens us throughout the Word to animals, while men can be "beasts" (microcosm) as are the nations [Daniel 7:23] as to their affections (macrocosm). "for I was ENVIOUS at the boastful, when I saw the PROSPERITY of the wicked; for their are no bands in their death; but their strength is firm "; "until I went into the sanctuary of my God, then understood I their end".."so foolish was I, and ignorant, I was as a BEAST before you" (Psalm 73;3; 22). Here David says he was a "beast" because his perception and understanding of spiritual matters was based upon his wisdom derived at the level of his bodily senses (he perceived at that level the ungodly rich prospered in the world and had no pangs in death Ps 73:4). It was not until he was enlightened by God as to the ultimate fate of man that he realised his perception was natural/external and spiritually foolish (Ps 73:17-18). He was also a "beast" as to his affections (envious of the prosperity of others). The beast is natural man (a spiritual Egyptian), and that which does not accord with the wisdom derived at the level of his bodily senses seems foolishness to him, "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned". The natural man is revealed as to his spiritual perception (which is external), and his affections (which are carnal).
A beast signifies man as to his natural or carnal affections. For which reason the medieval papacy through the ages is called "the beast" (as the microcosm of modern man who is now in that carnal image/that mindset), therefore we read "and the fruits that thy soul LUSTED AFTER are departed from thee" (Rev. 18:14); and the same is said of the latter day (type). Also, as the nations were of this nature, Lord Jesus says, "go into the world and preach the Gospel to EVERY CREATURE" (Mark 16:15). That men as to their affections, are meant by beasts, may appear in these places and many besides, "Thou, O God, didst send a plentiful rain, whereby Thou didst confirm Thine inheritance, when it was weary; this BEAST SHALL DWELL THEREIN" (Ps. 68:9, 10); "rejoice and be glad, be not afraid, ye BEASTS OF MY FIELDS, for my pastures of the wilderness do spring" (Joel 2. 21-23); "ALL YE BEASTS OF THE FIELD...HIS WATCHMEN ARE BLIND, THEY ARE ALL IGNORANT, they are dumb DOGS they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber, YEA THEY ARE GREEDY DOGS" (Isa 55:9); "a man who is in honour but understands not is like a BEAST that perishes". Beasts are carnally motivated men (microcosm) or nations (macrocosm) who have no spiritual understanding, and purpose to believe nothing that does not accord with their wisdom derived at the level of their bodily senses in which they trust - and believe all else is "foolishness". Not realising God has intentionally hidden all such evidence from the science and wisdom of natural man, and purposed our trust in it in spiritual matters will never prosper.

In Corinthians, whenever Paul refers to the wisdom of natural man, he always quotes the prophecies of Egypt, "For the EGYPTIANS shall help in vain, and to no purpose, therefore have I cried concerning this….now go write it on a scroll, that it may be for a time to come FOR EVER AND EVER"; "Where are they? Where are thy wise men? And let them tell thee now, and let them know what the Lord has PURPOSED UPON EGYPT" or upon the science and wisdom of natural man in presuppositions brought from the world to Word (Isaiah 19:12; 1 Corin. 1:19; Isaiah 30:7). Therefore it is said (now the spirit of Egypt has come up and covered the whole world as a flood), "EGYPT riseth up LIKE A FLOOD and he saith, I will go up and cover the earth" (Jer46:8). That those who are spiritual, yet go back to back to being natural, with all its perceptions and affections thereof, are like those bitten by serpents; "because the sons of Israel desired to return to EGYPT there WERE BIT BY SERPENTS" (Num 21:1-10), or deceived by serpents, and as this is the spirit of latter days in which they trust, so it is said "you shall go forth from him with your hands upon your head, for the Lord has rejected your confidences and you shall not prosper in them." (Jer. 2:29).
"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#134 Mercia2

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Posted 01 March 2005 - 08:15 PM

what relevance is it how  it is written in tjhe Greek? If i wrote it in English it would be six hundred and sixty six. In other words the same.

But if the mark is supposed to be the numbers '666', then what John wrote is not the mark. He wrote words. :book:

Makes no difference if he wrote it or said it. The popes title would still equal 666 numerically, and so would the unchanging structure of the UPC (the mark). The first ever global mark on everything we "buy" and "sell" that just happened to read 6-6-6 world-wide.
It says Solomon received six hundred and sixty six talents of gold. Thats how it is written, but I bet he still numerically received 666 of them. :eek:
I think appealing to the fact it is written is reductionism gone mad and is totally irrelevant to the fact its numerical equivalant is 666. If it was relevant then the Bible would have recorded Solomons 666 talents of gold - numerically - but it didnt.

First the man had to be revealed (so we could perceive his affections and what he lived for - how he was imbued) - "Merchandise of.....etc etc " Before the Protestants of the New World "gave life" to those affections via its global economic system (consumerism) "he causeth all" and imbued those affections upon the world (gave life to the image/charachter of the medievil papacy).
Infact the voice that speaks is democracy (the people of American themselves telling the world they should live as they do) - which is materialistically/carnally after the flesh. "This was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom…FULNESS OF FOOD, and abundance of idleness was in her, NEITHER DID SHE STRENGTHEN THE HAND OF THE POOR AND NEEDY" Ezekiel 16:49. Thus the same is said of the shephards today" (Isa 56:11).

So modern man is now in his image (lusting after carnal affections), and thus take the mark (as representing those affections) so clearly revealed in Rev 18:12-16 as lusting after "merchandise".

This is the true effect of Romes wine
"because he TRANSGRESSETH BY WINE, HE IS A PROUD MAN, who enlargeth HIS DESIRE AS HELL, AND IS AS DEATH AND CANNOT BE SATISFIED" (Hab 2:3), hence "this is their [the Church of Romes] resemblance [image] through all the world" (Zech 6:6), or "for all the nations have drunk the wine of the wrath of her fornications", therefore "the nations are mad", or spiritually insane

"ALL YE BEASTS OF THE FIELD...HIS WATCHMEN ARE BLIND, THEY ARE ALL IGNORANT, they are dumb DOGS they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber, YEA THEY ARE GREEDY DOGS" (Isa 55:9).

So to simply understand what the hour of temptation [in the wilderness] relates to (and what caused the judgement of God to befall those God was attempting to lead out of Egypt or the natural degree/carnal mind), all we have to do is study the patterns and types of old that would always point to the same today. Thus it is said that those God was leading out of Egypt "were not deprived of their lusts, but while their meat was still in their mouths, the WRATH OF GOD CAME UPON THEM AND SLEW THE FATTEST OF THEM", and as it is this that typifies judgement, and is now represented in Revelation 13:14, so it is written "you have FATTENED YOURSELF IN THE DAY OF SLAUGHTER", as we are today (the sin of Sodom), and that those who are natural (either do no believe in God or worship a man as God and live for that nature) "the SAME shall drink the wine of the WRATH OF GOD" (Rev 13:10).
To adore the beast (and) his image. Is to adore carnally motivated modern man - the type that David in Ps 73 detested as to their "image"/charachter. Revelation 13 does not say you are condemnd for worshipping the beast OR his image, but AND his image (that type of person). It is not just referring to the worship of the papacy but the revealed CHARACHTER of the papacy over the last 1500 years (see Rev 18:12-16 and Ps 73) - which is the charachter/image of Satan, Esua, Cain and the popes of Rome.

Edited by Mercia2, 02 March 2005 - 08:48 AM.

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#135 Mercia2

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Posted 01 March 2005 - 08:31 PM

The image of the Beast [man as macrocosm] - post 1844 (the New World man)
In the image (the charachter) of the medievil popes of Rome.

"PRIDE compasseth them about a chain"
"their eyes stand out with fatness THEY HAVE MORE THAN HEART COULD WISH"
"they SCOFF… they speak PROUDLY"
"the ungodly who prosper in the world they INCREASE IN RICHES"
"they set their mouths AGAINST THE HEAVENS"
= "as a dream when one awaketh You shall despise THEIR IMAGE"
= "so foolish was I and ignorant I was a BEAST before You" (Psalm 73:6; 7; 9; 12; 20; 21). This psalm reveals the type who is of the image of the beast. It should be noted that the specific context in which David admitted he was a foolish beast (was a denial that the ungodly rich suffer terrors AFTER death). He was a fool and a beast for NOT believing this.
It is those affections (and those perceptions) that made David a "beast" - the world is now in those affections, in the image of the beast. This representing the image of the medievil papacy (Rev 18). The beast as microcosm. The Beast in the new world has imbued the world to give life to these affections, to give life to the image of the beast. That is, via its global economic system of things "BUY or SELL".

Therefore the whole Christian world is in bondage in spiritual Egypt (to those affections) - and are of that charachter.

Edited by Mercia2, 01 March 2005 - 09:24 PM.

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#136 Mercia2

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:09 AM

I just need to update this thread for 2012.

The first thing to say is the only part of the above I can sure is inspired relates to the seven thunders and dual application. Everything needs testing rigoursily against Gods Word.

I am not claiming the bar code is the mark of the beast (beyond it having a dual fulfillment), I was never told by the angel/Holy Spirit "the barcode is the mark of the beast" but I was told by an angel of God that He had been reading what I had wrote about it (in the future) and read back to me what I would write which then came out at the time in the form of a future prophecy to those listening at the papal mass in (1982). This was part of it - So I do know God expects the discerning to recognise it as a related sign at the very least (which I believe is part of the seven additional thunders which are prophecies) delivered in Revelation 10:2 which is after trumpet 6 (traditional Historicist method), so these are seven additional thunders/prophecies delivered after trumpet 6 (traditional Historicist method). In other words, dual fulfillment of seven prophecies already written down (Rev 10:4; 10:11) that apply after 1850 approx. It has been seven years since I visited this thread and the UPC remains unchanged.

Here is how to understand it in context (the angel told me all Christadelphian prophecy stopped 150 years ago) and this was NOT acceptable.

What happens after Trumpet 6 (around the 19th century/traditional Historicist version), we have an angel with a little book that was sealed, now open delivering seven additional prophecies John was about to write down but was told "write them not" (this is because they are already written down).

After trumpet 6 (19th century) an angel delivers 7 more prophecies

And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.


They are "sealed up" in Daniels sealed book until "the time of the end" (Dan 12:4) and the little sealed book is delivered "open" post 1850 here with seven additional/thunders/prophecies.

Here it is...

And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth

Revelation 10:2

Which is what Daniel saw here...

Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end


Daniel 12:9

The instructions are that our generation must proclaim these last seven thunders to the world, but to discover them will take some searching...

But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase [PROPHETIC] knowledge.

Daniel 12:4

And Revelation 10:11 tells us what to do with that prophetic knowledge

Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

Revelation 10:11

The combination of using the word "prophesy AGAIN" and the fact John was about to write these seven additional thunders/prophecies down, but was told "write them not" is double confirmation we are talking about dual application here of prophecies already written down.

We know this is correct because John was about to write them down (these seven new prophecies AFTER trumpet 6) but was told not to, (obviously because they already are), otherwise why tell us! It is telling us we undesputably have dual fulfillment (after trumpet 6 - Historicist method), that is why at the end of Revelation chapter 10 it says "Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings."

The above was taught to be by the Holy Spirit immediately after prayer on this specific matter.

THEIR IS NO TIME LEFT. You are deluding yourselves if you think their is. Jesus could come anytime now and I would say not much after 2015.

At the end of my second conversation with the angel/Holy Spirit I was shown visions of the years going past far into future (the year was then 1982), I was being shown the years go past and it was getting faster and faster, I was trying to grab onto an image to hold in my mind that I would remember, but time was going past so fast, faster and faster, all I remember is thousands and thousands of protests on the streets in the middle east, the years went past 2015-16 as I remember but then either got so fast I could either not keep up or it stopped. I have no special revelation on dates but I can tell you we are in the endtimes, that is for sure and we will be judged by the standards of the first century church. We have no idea what that means.

My hour of temptation time scale theory probably needs work, as at the time I was not even sure if correct, when it begins.

I also say in an earlier post, 'Jesus said I council you to buy of me' and then relate this to literal merchandise. I probably tortured the examples too much (more than was necessary to make the point). So I must add the primary meaning of all merchandising in this sense is always spiritual, to buy the wisdom/gold from Jesus refined through the fire/Holy Spirit. Yet I do also believe the verses of Revelation 18:7 prove their is a literal application to the wealth of the RCC here (read them carefully they are not just symbolic) and if so also the same context has to be applied prophetically to us. So yes it is mainly about the idea of spiritual merchandising, but their is a literal aspects to this we are seeing in the world on the level of (macrocosm), the RCC being the (microcosm) as cause and effect.

Also, Fortigurn held me up on some matters related to the symbolism used in relation to being fat which I accept.

About the Universal Product Code. The guard bars are the only unchanging structure of the UPC, this is the only part that stays the same world wide. The guard bars are not read by a computer, so they are not read as a 6, but they are visually identical to a Left 6. The space either side of the visible line is related to how a computer reads it, but to human eyes, as a sign for us, the creater of the UPC himself says he used the two lines, exact weight and distance apart that resemble the left 6, for (the only unchanging structure of the worlds first ever global code on almost everything we "buy and sell"). Technically it is not read by a computer as a 6, for some that is enough to discard it, but if they can show me prophecies in the Bible that are accepted by technicality and not by meaning they will realise they have made a mistake (God always gives a skeptic enough room to deny any given prophecy on technicality), otherwise the Jews would have all converted and their would be no athiests in the world.

The UPC seems to relate more specifically to the EU version. I have had many debates with athiests over the years who are convinced the barcode creater did this intentionally as a joke against Christians, even for them the chance of it not resembling either nothing, or a 2, a 5, a 9, or two sets of guard bars that resembe sixes, or not have guard bars at all made them conclude it was not just lucky chance/coincidence, but done by design. Yet it was'nt. So if even athiests conclude it is more than coincidence the first ever global code on everything we literaly "buy and sell" just happen to have as its only unchanging structure what appears to human eyes as x6. Then why should Christians be denying its relevance to them?

The guard bar designer has insisted he did not do it on purpose and it has infact caused massive problems for him (the Russian Orthodox church lobbied the Russian government to accept a different type of barcode system than the universal one for this reason). My question is, will you as Theists not understand their is a margin of coincidence God plays with in every prophecy? Every fulfilled Biblical prophecy intentionally gives a skeptic a way out. Even the prophecies of Christ. The rule is - nothing by chance. Not in Gods Word/Prophecy.

When I was writing this 8 years ago everyone expected bar codes to be replaced by now, but they are still here.

Before anyone goes running of with the idea I have given up all worldly possessions as I have preached on this thread, I have not, so I am a hypocrite at present, although I did originally and have very little. I am happy with everything I have wrote on this thread but confess not to giving up everything I own as I preach (and after the example of Jesus), I do believe that is the ideal I need to aspire to as they are the Lords words.

Edited by Mercia2, 11 May 2012 - 05:19 PM.

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#137 Mercia2

Mercia2

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 05:21 PM

Please see my page here "what is the symbolic meaning of a beast" - http://wiki.answers....eaning_of_beast


This was predicted in 1982

Mary Stewart Relfe, The New Money System 666, 1982

"The Prophet John identified this Cashless System of Commerce 1900 years ago as one in which business would be transacted with a 'Mark' and a Number; the Mark will obviously be a Bar Code; the Number will be '666;' the combination of the two, about which you will read in this book, will be an integral part of the '666 System'. . .

RECEIVING OF ONE'S OWN VOLITION THE MARK (BRAND) IN THE RIGHT HAND OR FOREHEAD; which I believe will be a Bar Code facsimile incorporating a concealed use of '666,' unintelligible to the eye,. . ." Mary Stewart Relfe, The New Money System 666, 1982, pp. xii, 206)

A bizarre coincident? concerning the barcode is the Greek word charagma translated 'mark' in Revelation. Here's how Robert Van Kampen, in The Sign describes this coincident:

"It is interesting to note that the Greek word translated 'mark' is charagma which comes from the Greek word charax, which means 'a palisade, like a picket fence.' When one realizes that this specific word was used back in the first century, and we see today the use of the computer-related bar code, we find the possibilities becoming more than a reality in our day and age." (Robert Van Kampen, The Sign, 1992, p. 231)

Here's the explanation: The Greek "root" word for charagma (translated "mark") is charax. One of the meanings of charax is "a palisade" which is like a "picket fence, or vertical lines". The "idea" is, the reason John used the Greek word charagma, rather than stigma, etc., is because he was describing a 'mark' with vertical lines — a "bar code".

But is all this true?

Well, sort of. . .

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, defines the word charagma as:

5480 charagma, khar'-ag-mah; from the same as 5482 (charax) a scratch or etching, i.e. stamp (as a badge of servitude), or sculptured figure (statue): — graven, mark.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, defines the "root" word charax as:

5482 charax, khar'-az from charasso (to sharpen to a point; akin to 1125 through the idea of scratching); a stake, i.e. (by impl.) a palisade or rampant (military mound for circumvallation in a siege):—trench.

Noah Webster's 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language (a must have for any serious Bible student!) defines palisade as:

PALISADE, A fence or fortification consisting of a row of stakes or posts sharpened and set firmly in the ground. In fortification, the posts are set two or three inches apart, parallel to the parapet in the covered way, to prevent a surprize.


http://www.av1611.org/666/barcode.html

Some other points to remember.

1. As part of the seven additional prophecies/thunders delivered post 1947 (era of the nations), the lion, eagle, leopard and bear have a latter day prophetic application (in both Daniel and Revelation 13).

2. Mans worst man made disaster IS named in Revelation 8:10 (despite previous claims it was not true), Wormwood is Chornobyl and in slavic countries upto 50% of the population believe the Chernobyl disaster fulfilled this prophecy.

3. The previous prophecy speaks of a third of all sea life being killed, which due to pollution has or is coming to pass and according to my research a third of all the worlds shipping was literally lost in WW2 (most of the worlds shipping took part).
A mountain was also literally cast into the sea of the old world (europe) burning with fire - Nazi Germany at the end of WW2.

The implication is the prophecies are getting louder (more literal), having already had their symbolic (spiritual) fulfillment in the church age (we are now in the prophetic age of the nations).

4. There is a Divine Image and the image of the beast/animal motivated man. Do not let anyone confuse you from this simple Biblical narrative with their own ideas about what the "image of the beast" means. It means the opposite to the Divine Image we are to manifest. Now imagine in your mind the image/statue of the king of Babylon in Daniel 2-7. What do you see when you visualise it? All the kingdoms of men are INSIDE that image/statue. Ok keep that in your mind as I am about to show you how prophetic typology works..

Who is the typological prophetic king of Babylon today? The popes of Rome. Ok now imagine in your mind that IMAGE/statue of the King of Babylon with all the kingdoms of men INSIDE that image, but now image it as the pope of Rome with all the modern Christian nations INSIDE that image/statue "in his image", the lion (UK), eagle (USA), leopard (GER), bear (RUSSIA). Here we now have the meaning of what it is to be "in the image of the beast" transferred by use of prophetic typology from Daniel to the book of Revelation and the main 4 Christian world powers who will on on earth when Christ returns.

I hope you enjoyed that.

Did you not notice in Daniel 7:12 they all are on earth (at the same time) when Jesus returns and have their national sovereignty maintained for a short time into the kingdom age (in the previous verses Christ has ALREADY returned).

As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.




And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads

He causeth all (UK and USA) to receive a mark in the right hand (all of man as to his will) and in his forehead (all of man as to his affections). The Causeth all refers to democracy and the force of our will (global capitalist system which is currently destroying the earth).

And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

The name of the beast is the character of the beast, the number of his name is vicarius filii dei, 666.
Later we are told those who are lost both take the mark (live in rich countries) AND worship that character, so you can take the mark and not be condemned if you do not live for what it represents.

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

This is the papacy.

Here is what the papacy lived for...

And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed


What things?

The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.


So to be "in the image of the beast" is to live for, lust after the same as the medievil papacy, TODAY WE CALL THAT CONSUMERISM. As Bill Gates said, today we all live like medievil kings. We are all the image of the beast/papacy. That is why the mark was ultimately always going to be everything we also lust after in the exact same context.

The brilliant John Thomas believed the mark was the mark of the papacy, it is the (mark of his name), the name means character, so the barcode represents the mark of HIS CHARACTER (what he desired and lived for) = Merchandise, "all that is goodly and dainty" just like modern man. That is the mark of his character! Remember the image of the king of Babylon with all the modern Christian nations INSIDE his image/statue, that is what "in the image of the beast" means. The modern Christian nations are manifesting the character of the medievil popes (microcosm of macrocosom). This is long term cause and effect of rejecting the Christadelphian idea of participation! Christians live like athiests.

Now please see my post here - http://wiki.answers....ning_of_a_horse

Tyre signifies the Church as to knowledge's and truth, here such as are falsified in her, which are the horses of Babylon. The King of Babylon is a type of papacy (they all worshipped his image in Daniel 2), and the nations were (in) his image, but Daniel refused to worship his image, or to eat the kings food (take the mark) - to live like they lived, but instead took only pulse and water and was granted much spiritual perception because of it (Daniel 1:8) - as those who overcome are given hidden manna (spiritual insight). Daniel is a type of spiritually elect, as of course is Jesus who denied Himself in that context in the wilderness.

Read more: http://wiki.answers....e#ixzz1ucGTcCzL


Edited by Mercia2, 12 May 2012 - 05:35 PM.

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/




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