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Mythical Figures Parallel Jesus


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#41 Fortigurn

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 05:20 PM

Erm, some jewish Rabbi's perhaps who based their parables on the OT? :book:

No. Some Jewish rabbis who lifted the parables of Jesus, altered them slightly, and claimed them for the Jewish rabbinical teaching.

If you read them, you'll find that all of them are almost word for word parables from Christ. There is nothing in the Old Testament remotely like them. They are exegetical of the passages they quote, not derivative.

All of them post-date the New Testament.

#42 Fortigurn

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 05:42 PM

Ah, naughty rabbi's. :pull:

What's important is that they are a powerful witness to the influence of Christ's teaching.

#43 Tinkerbell

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 05:47 PM

Ah, naughty rabbi's.  :pull:

What's important is that they are a powerful witness to the influence of Christ's teaching.

They certainly are - it shows that eventhough the teachers were jealous of his influence over the people and wanted him gotten rid of, they knew what he was saying was good stuff and they couldn't just ignore it!!

I just find it very sad that they had to do this and try and claim the credit for Christ's work rather than just believing he was who he said he was!!

#44 Fortigurn

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 05:50 PM

It's also a powerful corroborative witness of the gospels. The fact that they were circulating even among the Jews at so early a date, demonstrates how widely read they were. :coffee:

#45 Fortigurn

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 06:07 PM

Question : Anyone got any datings for the Gospels of Thomas, Peter, Mary Magdalene etc etc?

Here.

#46 Tam_*

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 06:31 PM

Difference between the first rabbi parable and Christ's is that theirs has people telling God what they have done right in a gate of St Peter style judgment, as opposed to being told what they have done right by Christ in the sheep & goats parable. Those in the sheep and goats parable didn't even realise they had done these things. And the point of the parable of the sheep and goats wasn't just to feed the hungry but that those who cared for Christ's brethren were as though they cared for Christ himself.

So although they copied it they lost half the meaning.

#47 Rapunzel2

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 01:39 AM

Mm hmm. They've gotta have had some reason for picking such an unlikely date as that. :popcorn:

but what? :unsure:

#48 Evangelion

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Posted 22 August 2004 - 07:29 AM

Also, I believe that one of the pagan Roman emperors (Justin? Julian? Juilius?) decided that he would order pagans to 'love one another' in an attempt to belittle Christians. Hmm, good plan. :popcorn:


Julian the Apostate - and he did it to improve the popularity of the pagans (not to belittle the Christians.) :popcorn:
'Abba Antony said, "A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, 'You are mad, you are not like us.'"'

Ward, Benedicta. The Sayings of the Desert Fathers (2006), Antony 25, p. 5.

Credo.

#49 gabe_*

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Posted 05 October 2004 - 10:08 PM

Incorrect. The resurrection of Attis is not found in any version of the myth. Instead, he is seen as continuing to live as a tree.


Ah, the pine tree. What a wonderful symbol the evergreen is.

Still digesting.

#50 Mercia2

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Posted 06 November 2006 - 08:20 PM

Most of the pagan gods can be identified as deified fallen angels from the Enoch Christian tradition (like Prometheous who stole fire [knowledge] from the gods to bring to earth and give to man), a statue of which is outside the Rockerfeller building in New York. This parralels Azazel who is said to have come to earth with the sacred sciences etc (and taught mankind astrology and the pagan arts).

I have wrote a mass in this respect, showing how the pagans diefied the serpent angels of Enoch (Azazel etc), and that the wives they took were deified by the pagans as goddesses (because the angels taught them the magic arts/astronomy etc) and their offspring the Nephilm were deified as Tammuz, as Horus as countless other "sons of the serpent" or pagan "son of the Gods".

Please note the pagans themselves claimed to be sons of the serpent.

So while the Satanic counterfeit had pagan "sons of the gods", like the Pharaoh who was said to be as Horus (son of Osiris) or like Bacchus, they manifested the image of the beast (worshipped the animal nature in us), like Bacchus the god of revelry and drunkeness. While the real "sons of God" put to death the animal nature (the animal sacrifice we are called to make) and manifest the Divine Image (opposite to the image of the beast) manifested by the pagan "sons of the gods".

This is also why to the pagans, the serpent in Eden represents their god (and indeed they are his sons) as their own religions proclaim.

The Freemasons continue this pagan mystery tradition today.

The Egyptian texts even talk about Osiris being one of the "gods who walked the earth with man in the distant golden age before the Great Flood". The word Nephilm also means "one of the orionites" (where Osiris was said to come from) and that the Hebrews used to call the abode of the angels (the constellation of Orion).

I believe this false father, mother, son trinity is literally Satanic in origin in as much as it represents the pagan memory (from the Anuki tablets that surived the Flood and emerged in Babylon post Flood), that recorded the pagan gods (called fallen angels in Christianity) taking wives (called pagan goddesses) and giving birth to carnal men (called the son of the gods or the son of the dragon/serpent in pagan tradition) who like Horus was "initiated into the sacred sciences" as are the Freemasons today who adopted this tradition today (as Tammuz in Babylon - same as Horus in Egypt) and countless other pagan sons of the gods that have been passed through all cultures and ages since under countless different names.

The "mysteries" being the procession of the ages (the idea symbollised on the pyramid on the one dollar bill) and the likes of astrology and other pagan "arts" which include (according to Enoch) how to plunder the earth of metals to make advanced weapons of war "as in the days of Noah", and how to beautify the women with make up which led to the corruption of women and men (very much like today). It also speaks of the fallen ones (consuming) everything from off the face of the earth (non-sustainable consumerism) - also very much like today.

All this is what the Bible calls the "Mystery of Iniquity" that has spanned all the ages. Jospehus was right when he warned the early Church that Satan and his demons have attepted to mirror the Divine Plan. We would be much the wiser if we heeded those wise words in these latter days instead of devised cunning ways to refute them.

The Egyptians even used to wear the serpent symbol upon their head and those who built the pyramids (said to be long headed Aryans) named themselves "the Dragon Dynasty of Egypt" and from "the Serpent King bloodlines". i.e the Nephilim.

The Annuit Coeptis/Ancient Egyptians taught that one day in the future, when men were as "wise as the gods" (through science) their future continuation of the mysterys (occult freemasonry today) would replace the capstone which would represent the "enthronement of Osiris" (his ideals which deified science/gnosis). And the Great Pyramid of Egypt is (rather aptly) the symbol of mans rebellion against the Kingdom of God in this regard (mans plan as oppossed to Gods plan), which is also why Egypt represents natural man (and the science and wisdom of natural man) as the pagan god was the god of gnosis (the serpent had this meaning to the pagans), the God of science and the Great Pyramid of Egypt signifies this.

The Great Pyramid in Egypt is a huge monument to the god of gnosis (the science and technology and wisdom of natural man) which represents insanity in spiritual things (as they made science a religion and had gods to represent natural things).

So while the Great Pyramid is just a huge monument of mans rebellion and signfies the science and wisdom of natural man (the spiritual Egyptians), so as that same knowledge is destined to destroy us (while still fallen), so in this sense it is called a "destroying mountain". It is the ultimate symbol of the deification of wisdom, the deification of science (the science and wisdom of natural man) - the spiritual Egyptians.

The coming of Satan is the same as the Egyptian idea of the coming of Osiris or the enthroning of Osiris (replacing the capstone on cheops) in some future age when (the Annuit Coeptis [see the U.S Dollar bill] or Ancient Egyptians, which is what the Freemasons call themselves - bring about a new golden age (like before the flood) when the "gods walked with man" and man was as wise as the gods (the rebel angels) as the rebel angels taught man the sciences they later deified and called "sacred"/"sacred sciences". The idea of this is man will be as God because he will be as wise as God *(through the science and wisdom of natural man) and the capstone will then be replaced on Cheops (this is precisely what the Ancient Egytian religious leaders at that time taught was the meaning behind the symbols).

The Great Pyramid of Egypt is a huge symbol of mans rebellion against God, and a monumental symbol of the deification of science. The science and wisdom of natural man (the spiritual Egyptians).

It has been well reported that President Bush and other prominant Freemasons believe we are at that stage now (replace the capstone on Cheops), and tried to do this New Years Eve, 1999 but their was "uproar amongst the mullahs" in the Egyptian press and it had to be abondoned.
This act would have represented the deification of science (mans wisdom), and the deification of man because of it (the Man of Sin in the corporate prophetic sense).

On the old official U.S State Dept Website explaining the meaning of the Great Masonic Seal of the U.S on the dollar bill, it said (amongst depictions of half goat angels), that "it is the perfect symbol of our emerging higher conciousness in this technological and scientific age". This is precisely what the great Pyramid of Egypt represents (the science and wisdom of natural man), and the self deification of natural man due to him believing he is now as wise as God (the State Dept Website put is slightly less blasphemously) but their comments "a higher conciousness emerging" due to the science and technology of natural man means the same thing (man as God due to his possession of the wisdom of God). The same official website also rather aptly talks of the "golden race emerging to free mankind from fear" which means fear of God (the statue of liberty also has this meaning according to the French Freemason who made it) and it is also related to the ideas behind the French Revolution (liberty from God). The "golden race" refers to the Masonic idea that the Aryan race is part Divine and the product of a union of women with angels (based on the fact Enoch describes the off spring of the angels as being pale skinned with rosey cheeks).

The pagan Gods are the symbols of Satan and his angels
This was also the belief of the early Church.

Therefore in the pagan mystery religions that emerged post Flood, the god was Azazel (primarily - the king of heaven), their wives they took were deified by the pagans as the Queens of heaven, and their offspring the Nephilim are called the sons of the serpents (gods) and they all deified the serpent as the symbol of science (gnosis). They also diefied this science and called it "sacred", the "sacred sciences".

This, father, mother, son deification and false trinity as representing the above, was then passed from Babylon (Nimrod/Semiramus/Tammuz) and (Osiris, Isis, Horus) in Egypt and now (Jehovah/Mary/Jesus) in Catholicism, the same father, mother, son idea that has spanned all ages.

The real trinity (for those who believe in the Trinity) would be Father, son, spirit - Abraham/Isaac/Jacob, as oppossed to Father, Mother, Son which is the false pagan version.

http://www.remnantof...in-prophecy.htm

Edited by Mercia2, 06 November 2006 - 08:22 PM.

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#51 Mercia2

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 01:51 PM

Incorrect. According to the Roman version, Bacchus was the son of Jupiter, via the seduction of Semele. According to the Greek version,

It is true that these pagan authors who write these books like the Jesus Mysteries and try to point to parallels are taking traditions from here and there and misrepresenting them. It is also worth remembering that in forming a religion you are going to be influenced initially and worship what you see and what life depends on - i.e nature, the stars, the sun and relate summer to life and winter to death and God had already intended to use the observed natural as metaphors or what they spiritually represent, seeds, fruit, trees, sheep, light, dark etc. Also, what is most important to people? The family! - the father, mother, son concept then gets linked to the seasons and the life and death of the seasons and the concept of the son being passed on knowledge (especially of the seasons) becomes one of the multitude pagan vegetable religion.

In Egypt they invented gods to represent everything natural.

However, what God does seem to do is to use already existing pagan ideas (the creation allegory etc) and encode His own truth into the metaphors and symbolism. There will be a very good reason for this and we are supposed to understand it and be careful not to interpret it in the satanic pagan sense.

Edited by Mercia2, 17 November 2006 - 02:10 PM.

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#52 Mercia2

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 03:24 PM

Horus/Osiris of Egypt
In the Egyptian myth, Horus and his once-and-future Father, Osiris, are frequently interchangeable, as in “I and my Father are one.”


Incorrect. Both characters are clearly and consistently distinguished from each other. Osiris is even recorded as being killed during a time before Horus is born.

Concerning Osiris, Walker says:

Of all savior-gods worshiped at the beginning of the Christian era, Osiris may have contributed more details to the evolving Christ figure than any other. Already very old in Egypt, Osiris was dentified with nearly every other Egyptian god and was on the way to absorbing them all. He had well over 200 divine names. He was called the Lord of Lords, King of Kings, God of Gods.

He was the Resurrection and the Life, the Good Shepherd, Eternity and Everlastingness, the god who “made men and women to be born again.” Budge says, “From first to last, Osiris was to the Egyptians the god-man who suffered, an died, and rose again, and reigned eternally in heaven.

They believed that they would inherit eternal life, just as he had done . . .” Osiris’s coming was announced by Three Wise Men: the three stars Mintaka, Anilam, and Alnitak in the belt of Orion, which point directly to Osiris’s star in the east, Sirius (Sothis), significator of his birth . . .

Certainly Osiris was a prototypical Messiah, as well as a devoured Host. His flesh was eaten in the form of communion cakes of wheat, the “plant of Truth.” . . .

The cult of Osiris contributed a number of ideas and phrases to the Bible. The 23rd Psalm copied an Egyptian text appealing to Osiris the Good Shepherd to lead the deceased to the “green pastures” and “still waters” of the nefer-nefer land, to restore the soul to the body, and to give protection in the valley of the shadow of death (the Tuat). The Lord’s Prayer was prefigured by an Egyptian hymn to Osiris-Amen beginning, “O Amen, O Amen, who are in heaven.” Amen was also invoked at the end of everyprayer.

As Col. James Chruchward naively exclaims, “The teachings of Osiris and Jesus are wonderfully alike. Many passages are identically the same, word for word.”


These claims are not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology. They are easy to make (especially when they arrive with no quoted evidence whatsoever, as in this case) but they are impossible to prove.

Osiris was also the god of the vine and a great travelling teacher who civilized the world.


Incorrect. He was a king (not a travelling teacher) who taught winemaking (among other things) and taught law to his people.

He was the ruler and judge of the dead.


Correct. Upon his death, Osiris was sent to the underworld, where he reigned as king.

In his passion, Osiris was plotted against and killed by Set and “the 72.”


Correct. However, this has no relevance to Jesus.

Like that of Jesus, Osiris’s resurrection served to provide hope to all that they may do likewise and become eternal.


Incorrect. Osiris was not resurrected (he remained in the underworld) and since the Egyptians believed in the immortality of the soul (as opposed to resurrection) they saw nothing particularly inspirational in the passage of Osiris from the land of the living to the land of the dead.

Osiris’s “son” or renewed incarnation, Horus, shares the following in common with Jesus:

--Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Merion


Incorrect. Isis impregnated herself with the body of Osiris, which (for whatever reason) was still capable of impregnating her.

December 25


Correct.

in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology. In fact, Horus is recorded as being born in a swamp.

--His earthly father was named “Seb” (“Joseph”).


Incorrect. Seb was the God of the earth (not an "earthly father") and he was the father of Osiris (not Horus.)

--He was of royal descent.


Correct.

--At at 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized having disappeared for 18 years.


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

--Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by “Anup the Baptizer” (“John the Baptist”), who was decapitated.


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

--He had 12 desciples, two of who were his “witnesses” and were named “Anup” and “Aan” (the two “Johns”).


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

--He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus (“El-Osiris”), from the dead.


Correct, but then so did many other hero figures. Moreover, none of these events are specific enough to connect Horus with Jesus.

--Horus walked on water.


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

--His personal epithet was “Iusa,” the “ever-becoming son” of “Ptah,” the “Father.” He was thus called “Holy Child.”


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

--He delivered a “Sermon on the Mount” and his followers recounted the “Sayings of Iusa.”


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

--Horus was transfigured on the Mount.


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

--He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology. At one point Horus is bitten by a snake and revived, but that's about as good as it gets.

--He was also the “Way, the Truth, the Light,” “Messiah,” “God’s Anointed Son,” “the “Son of Man,” the “Good Shepherd,” the “Lamb of God,” the “Word made flesh,” the “Word of Truth,” etc.


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

--He was “the Fisher” and was associated with the Fish (“Ichthys”), Lamb and Lion.


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

--He came to fulfill the Law.


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

--Horus was called “the KRST,” or “Anointed One.”


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

--Like Jesus, “Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years.”


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.

Furthermore, inscribed about 3,500 years ago [1500 years before Jesus’ alleged advent] on the walls of the Temple at Luxor were images of the Annunciation, Immaculate Conception, Birth and Adoration of Horus, with Thoth announcing to the Virgin Isis that she will conceive Horus; with Kneph the “Holy Ghost,” impregnating the virgin; and with the infant being attended by three kings, or magi, bearing gifts.


As we have seen, most of these claims are insupportable since they do not accurately reflect the legend of Horus.

Incidentally, these are the temple images in question:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

If you can get "...Annunciation, Immaculate Conception, Birth and Adoration of Horus, with Thoth announcing to the Virgin Isis that she will conceive Horus; with Kneph the 'Holy Ghost,' impregnating the virgin; and with the infant being attended by three kings, or magi, bearing gifts" out of these, you're a better man than I, Gunga Din. :bow:

In addition, in the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus being held by the virgin mother Isis—the original “Madonna and Child.”


Mother/child figures appear throughout history, throughout cultures, throughout different civilisations. To claim that one representation has borrowed from another, is meaningless unless a direct parallel can be proved.

As Massey says:

It was the Gnostic art that reproduced the Hathor-Meri and Horus of Egypt as the Virgin and child-Christ of Rome . . . You poor idiotai, said the Gnostics [to the early Christians], you have mistaken the mysteries of old for modern history, and accepted literally all that was only meant mystically.


The Gnostics did indeed say this, but they weren't talking about Osiris and Horus.


If that is all true then it just goes to show how tenuous the links that so called professors and scholars weave, because I have read books by those claiming high qualification in the study of paganism absolutely insistant upon very clear connections. If this is because they are just emotionally biased and are skillfully weaving fine flax in order to show comparisons by ommitting all the contradictory evidence (which I guess is what they do), then you can understand why I remain profoundly skeptical of those with BA and MA in pagan studies or anyone elses - http://www.tektonics...jesmystrvw.html

During a short exchange I had with Peter Gandy on an Internet Discussion Board I asked him if any academics at respectable universities supported his thesis. Of course, he did not give me an answer as it would have to be in the negative. Instead, ‘wah-wah’ book authors like to claim that real scholars secretly agree with them but dare not speak out and face the scorn of their colleagues.


As far as I see it, their is an occassional and intentional comparison and link in structure which is an intentional parody but 90% of everything else I am extremely skeptical about like this...

--He had 12 desciples, two of who were his “witnesses” and were named “Anup” and “Aan” (the two “Johns”).


This claim is not supported by any authoritative source on Egyptian mythology.


I believe the evidence seems to point to structure like this where I believe God intentionally parodys paganism...

--He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus (“El-Osiris”), from the dead.


Correct, but then so did many other hero figures. Moreover, none of these events are specific enough to connect Horus with Jesus.


Or like the structure of the Creation account, (but not the theology of course). The reason why God mimicks the structure is to teach the reader at that time that they are reading a parody of their beliefs in which the theology is corrected. No better way to get them to learn, but that is it. I do not buy into most of the more intricate comparisons and enjoyed reading Evs debunking of them above.

Edited by Mercia2, 05 April 2012 - 03:42 PM.

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#53 Mercia2

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 03:48 PM

In other words, whether or not literal demons exist, Jesus had to accomodate that structure, that belief system in order to correct its theology. Their is a definite precident for this in the Bible, not least the Creation account which is exactly what God is doing again, intentionally mimicking the structure of the Bablyonian myth in order to correct its theology. It would not have worked if Jesus just turned up and said "demons dont exist", whether they exist or not they were firmly believed to exist by those He would preach to. Now I am the most reluctant person to admit this out of everyone remember, so if i can see it and see this is a repeating style within the Bible, then you lot should be able to for sure.

http://bibleq.info/answer/1310/

There is an element of accommodation. If the Jews had not already absorbed Babylonian and Greek ideas about demons causing illness then the NT casting out of demons would not have been possible

Surprise, suprise! Them again.

Edited by Mercia2, 05 April 2012 - 04:11 PM.

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#54 Evangelion

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 06:04 PM

He didn't endorse it.
'Abba Antony said, "A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, 'You are mad, you are not like us.'"'

Ward, Benedicta. The Sayings of the Desert Fathers (2006), Antony 25, p. 5.

Credo.

#55 Flappie

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 06:24 PM

Mercia, why do you reply to 8 year old posts?
"The first condition of immortality is death."
Broeders in Christus

#56 Mercia2

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 06:37 PM

He didn't endorse it.

The guy from Tektonics didn't endorse it, no. But I was only linking to that as it was the only thing I could find about 'scholars' Freke and Gandy, I have since found this - http://en.wikipedia....Jesus_Mysteries

I read his book several times, it made me angry as it sold alot of copies. The book promoted itself from the cover by stressing...

Timothy Freke, a philosophy and religions scholar, and Peter Gandy a classics scholar were only saying what all other scholars were too scared to say, but said amongst themselves. This was on the cover, I notice he said it to the guy from Tektonics as well.

Mercia, why do you reply to 8 year old posts?

I was reading and replying to something Ev had wrote that was related to a newer thread and conversation we were having on this subject. However, I have just noticed I was the last one to post on this thread and if you were observant you will see I have now been trying to teach you the same thing now for over 6 years.

From 2006 (last post)

However, what God does seem to do is to use already existing pagan ideas (the creation allegory etc) and encode His own truth into the metaphors and symbolism. There will be a very good reason for this and we are supposed to understand it and be careful not to interpret it in the satanic pagan sense.


Let me put it in a way you will not be able to deny.

How can you have a Babylonian demon accomodation theory as you Christadelphians have and NOT also have a Babylonian creation myth accomodation theory in the exact same context I have said above. Why do you think God suddenly did a new thing in the NT?
"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/

#57 Evangelion

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 10:01 PM

I meant Jesus didn't endorse it.
'Abba Antony said, "A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, 'You are mad, you are not like us.'"'

Ward, Benedicta. The Sayings of the Desert Fathers (2006), Antony 25, p. 5.

Credo.

#58 Mercia2

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 05:12 AM

Jesus was not endorsing it no, he was correcting its conclusions/theology.

Jesus would have read the Creation account and recognised that in (structure) it was a very intentional parody of the Babylonian myth in which God corrects the theology, so He had a precident when He mimicked Babylonian beliefs/demon possession in order to correct its theology in the NT. i.e you can call an illness a demon if you want but just so long as you remember God is in first principles, i.e "Then the Lord said to [Moses], “Who has made man’s mouth? Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?".."And if Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say that I cast out demons by Beelzebul. 19 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges." Luke 11:18.

i.e they can believe in demons if they want (no matter what Jesus would have said they would have carried on believing in demons) but just so long as they dont start trying to claim God is not in First Principles. Jesus addressed the Babylonian idea of dualism and corrected it inline with what the OT already revealed i.e whether good or evil God creates it all for a reason.

Believing demons cause illness is not a sin in itself, it may be ignorant, but it is only when demons are presented as gods autonomous of God that the belief becomes a sin. That is what Jesus corrected. So what this tells us is God is interested in correcting our theology not our scientific beliefs or He would have done so clearly.

Edited by Mercia2, 09 April 2012 - 12:58 PM.

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” = "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?" = "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. Who maketh His angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire" Psalms (104:1) = "They saw what seemed to be flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them." Acts 2 - the secret is over, your ministering angel you need to be saved is the Holy Spirit.

Who Is the Holy Spirit?
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20950-holy-spirit-mercia/

Mark Of The Beast - his Name is the charachter/image of the medievil popes (now modern man)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/4997-mark-of-the-beast/page__pid__439951__st__120#entry439951

Historicists - Dual Fulfillment (seven thunders = more literal warning)
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/14248-historicists-revelation-has-a-dual-fulfillment/




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