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God and Evil


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#21 Guest_composer_*

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 04:30 PM

Basically, God, whose name is Jehovah . . .

Side line: FOREWORD p. 12 of "The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures" (i.e. KIT) admits the term ' Jehovah ' is an inferior form of God's name, as does another WT Publication called "Let Your Name be Sanctified " (pp.16, 18).

For example:
Satan, the devil, the fallen angel and his army of demons (one third of the angels) Rev. 12:4

The EVENTS of the Book of Revelation did not start to take place until AFTER AD. 96 (approx.) So this alleged ' War in God's Heavenly domain (another impossibility (Psalm 5: 4) ASV) did not take place until AFTER AD 96 (approx.) so where did all your naughty spirit angels come from before AD 96?

Also, when did your naughty angels become demons?

So, do you believe God is Just?

Yes indeed, and that would include not permitting thousands of naughty heavenly angels to exist for thousands of years with supernatural powers that apparently go around doing evil and attempting to corrupt mankind.
That God's justice is uniform and without variableness and the same Laws apply to all i.e. The wages of sin is death (Rom. 6:23) KJV. However ALL heavenly angels can never die (Luke 20:36) KJV and that means your alleged naughty ex-heavenly angels can never die and if that were the case then such a god is a god of injustice and self contradiction and certainly not the God of the Bible.

Thank you

#22 Fortigurn

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 05:27 PM

I believe the issue here is that I personally don't see a difference between "supernatural" and "natural" evil/calamity.

Evil and Calamity whether natural or supernatural are the same.


Well that's plain wrong. If I cause evil/calamity, that's not supernatural. If an earthquake occurs as a result of natural forces without divine intervention, that's not supernatural.

Basically, God, whose name is Jehovah which means "He causes to become" can make or create anything He wants, including evil and calamity. Isa 45:7


That isn't under dispute (though you did dispute it previously).

In the case of those who disobey God, evil and calamity are brought upon them based on their own actions. Therefore, they are responsible and the cause for their own suffering, not God.


Er, their disobedience is why God causes the evil/calamity, but it's still God causing the evil/calamity. They are not the cause of the event, their actions are the reason why God causes the event. Look at Job.

For example:
Satan, the devil, the fallen angel and his army of demons (one third of the angels) Rev. 12:4


I don't know what you think you're trying to prove with this passage, but it says nothing about demons and it says nothing about satan being a fallen angel. It's also speaking of an event which was in John's future, concerning the Roman empire.

Adam. Gen. 3:17-19

Cain. Gen 4:11-12

The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and Lot's wife. Gen. 19:24-26


The only evil/calamity caused here are the murder of Cain, the violence and perversion of the men of Sodom and Gomorrah, and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah by God. What are you trying to prove with these passages?

See the scriptures below for some insight into God's way of handling such matters...


This isn't under dispute. What's under dispute is whether or not God is the only source of supernatural evil/calamity.

God is Love, however another significant quality of His is Justice, which is where 'evil/calamity' would fit into.

So, do you believe God is Just?


Of course we do, and that's precisely where we see evil/calamity come in.

#23 Me2007_*

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 10:43 PM

For example:
Satan, the devil, the fallen angel and his army of demons (one third of the angels) Rev. 12:4

The EVENTS of the Book of Revelation did not start to take place until AFTER AD. 96 (approx.) So this alleged ' War in God's Heavenly domain (another impossibility (Psalm 5: 4) ASV) did not take place until AFTER AD 96 (approx.) so where did all your naughty spirit angels come from before AD 96?

Also, when did your naughty angels become demons?

composer,

I believe we have discussed this previously, however... here is my answer to your questions.

Wicked angels did exist prior to AD 96.

The "sons of God" in Genesis 6 are "spirit persons" or "angels" who disobeyed God.

Genesis 6:2 (KJV)
2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

1 Peter 3:19,20 (KJV)
19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

2 Peter 2:4 (KJV)
4For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 6 (KJV)
6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


Also, just for the record, JW are not the only ones who believe this.

Fortigurn,

What am I trying to prove? I am simply pointing out biblical facts regarding evil and calamity.
I just can't agree with your perception of evil and calamity.
Can you provide me with specific evidence that there is a difference between "supernatural" and "natural" evil/calamity?

Here's a scenario:
If God decides to destroy computers tomorrow, you consider that "supernatural".
If you or I decide to destroy computers tomorrow , you consider that "natural".

Ok...baby steps...how will God go about to accomplish this mission? Wouldn't he have to use a "natural" resource to do this...just like I would?

Edited by Me2007, 03 February 2008 - 11:03 PM.


#24 Fortigurn

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 10:53 PM

Wicked angels did exist prior to AD 96.

The "sons of God" in Genesis 6 are "spirit persons" or "angels" who disobeyed God.

Genesis 6:2 (KJV)
2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.


This says nothing about 'spirit persons' or 'angels'.

1 Peter 3:19,20 (KJV)
19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.


This says nothing about angels or 'spirit persons' either.

2 Peter 2:4 (KJV)
4For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 6 (KJV)
6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


You're assuming for some reason that these are heavenly angels which 'fell'. Why? They aren't.

Also, just for the record, JW are not the only ones who believe this.


We're aware of that, but it's not relevant.




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